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Old 06-15-2021, 04:24 AM   #1
mr-lucas
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Unhappy Kobo & planned obsolescence

Hi all,

I have a Kobo Mini which I always used with great pleasure. It's an awesome little device with great battery life that I bring and use wherever I go. Recently however I got a good deal on a Kobo Aura, which means I could give the Mini to my mom as her first e-reader. I gave it a factory reset (restore to initial settings from the menu), and that is when the problems started...

Even though I have always kept the firmware up-to-date (including this mandatory update in February 2019), the device would not complete the initial setup anymore. I tried from the device, using the desktop app, after another factory reset (with the little push-button in the back), but nothing worked. I contacted Kobo Support, but after a long discussion the only option they had for me was that I had to buy a new device.

At this point I remembered that I had a backup lying around of the internal SD card, which I then used to restore the device. Long story short: I fixed it and my mom is now happily using it.


But what I want to discuss with you is the following:

How could it be that Kobo (or Rakuten) gets away with this? The support desk literally told me:

Quote:
When a device has some years, it is normal that after latest updates the device no longer works
I understand that new features won't be supported anymore. It's also okay that cloud-features cannot be supported indefinitely. But completely bricking a device just because it's old?!? I'm sure Apple will have a huge problem if it does that with all Iphones that are officially out of support, and I also don't see it happening that all Tesla cars over a certain age won't be allowed to start anymore.

I am a strong opponent of planned obsolescence and mandatory cloud dependencies. Having to register with Kobo before you can start reading your own (legal) epubs is already an issue, but at least that is known before purchasing the device.

I'm curious to hear your opinions on this.

Best regards,
Lucas
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Old 06-15-2021, 04:47 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-lucas View Post
I'm sure Apple will have a huge problem if it does that with all Iphones that are officially out of support
Apple is only offering support if you subscribed to apple care or if you're willing to pay for it.
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:00 AM   #3
mr-lucas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanplan View Post
Apple is only offering support if you subscribed to apple care or if you're willing to pay for it.
But not paying for Apple Care does not give Apple the right to remotely disable your device.
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:09 AM   #4
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@mr-lucas: Is that an exact quote from the help desk? I mean, it doesn't make sense as a reply for any question about the Mini and Kobo's support for it. Are you paraphrasing? Or was there something else stated? Whatever it was, the conclusion you have drawn from it in incorrect.

Kobo still supplies some support for the Mini through the Kobo desktop application. This was stated in the email they sent out when they announced the were stopping support for some of the other devices. The details are also on their support site at https://help.kobo.com/hc/en-us/artic...mmon-questions. It is also something that has been discussed on this forum many times since that announcement. The suggestions for doing the setup are either to use the desktop application, or install the firmware manually. I can't remember if you will be able to sign into the device using WiFi after that or not.

And for the record, whenever new firmware is released, there is a thread here to discuss it. One of the fairly early questions in the thread is whether the firmware will work on the Mini. So far, the answer has always been yes. Kobo might not officially support the Mini with current firmware, but, they haven't actually removed the support from the code.
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:42 AM   #5
mr-lucas
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Here is a slightly longer copy from our conversation:
Quote:
(09:25:39 AM) Kobo: When and where was purchased the device?
(09:28:31 AM) Lucas: It was purchased on July 11, 2013 at [xxx]
(09:38:45 AM) Kobo: Okay
(09:46:31 AM) Kobo: The device is a bit old
(09:48:43 AM) Kobo: Even if doing the resetting process and the device is not responding there is no further process we could do to make device respond
(09:50:32 AM) Lucas: If the age of the device prevents it from working after a factory reset, I expect to be notified beforehand so I could have decided against doing the reset. It was working without any issues.
(09:56:13 AM) Kobo: I totally agree
(09:57:16 AM) Kobo: When a device has some years, it is normal that after latest updates the device no longer works, this, due to the age of the device and the fact that software of it can not support latest updating process
I do not agree with you that my conclusion is incorrect. Both in the e-mail I received on 29-01-2019 and on the Kobo support article it states:
Quote:
Without this update, the Kobo Mini will no longer be able to exit the setup process after a factory reset is performed.
However, in my case I did update to this latest version on time, but still I was not able to exit the setup process after a factory reset. What should I have done different?
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:10 AM   #6
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I don't think Apple would have been much better in a similar case with a similar vintage iPhone. The iPhone 4S for example which came out the year before the Kobo Mini has been declared "obsolete" by Apple and they won't support it at all, not even offering battery replacements. And other than one software update in 2019 to keep the GPS from bricking it hasn't seen any updates since 2016.

It's hard to know from your description where the factory reset went wrong. Was it something wrong on Kobo's end? Is the SD card starting to go and caused issues doing factory reset? I can't really fault Kobo for their response for a device you bought 8 years ago that cost $80 brand new and the warranty is long gone.

Considering that Kobo keeps delivering updates to every single model they've made except the original two non-touch models and the mini some stretching back 10 years it's a bit tough to accuse them of planned obsolescence. How many tech products these days get 10 years of updates?
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:52 AM   #7
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I don't know where the problem exactly occurred during the process. After I figured out how to fix it I even went to the entire process again just to make sure I followed Kobo's instructions properly. Same outcome. Maybe the Kobo servers were down at both the moments that I tried this?

And regarding the expected lifetime of products... You can call me old-fashioned but I do expect products to last longer. It works for my car (2012 and still repairable) and my laptop (2011 and still receiving microcode and software updates), and my power tools (some very old but still replacement parts available). But I suggest we keep that specific discussion for another time and place
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:55 AM   #8
davidfor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-lucas View Post
I do not agree with you that my conclusion is incorrect. Both in the e-mail I received on 29-01-2019 and on the Kobo support article it states:

However, in my case I did update to this latest version on time, but still I was not able to exit the setup process after a factory reset. What should I have done different?
The firmware update does not change what happens when you do a factory reset. In fact, the point of the factory reset should be to wipe any firmware updates.

And in answer to the question, "How do I update my Kobo Mini's software?" Kobo has:
Quote:
To update the Kobo Mini’s software:

Follow the prompts on your Kobo Mini to install the update before February 28th, 2019. If you are unable to do this before February 28th, 2019, you will need to install the update manually using the Kobo Desktop Application for Windows or OSX.
Followed by the instructions.

The only thing missing on the page is an explicit statement that this has to be done if you do a factory reset.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:59 AM   #9
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I've had issues multiple times with minis acting like this upon factory reset. I assume you're referring to the one where the coloured lights flash, but nothing actually ends up working.

This issue is indeed caused by SD card corruption, which the mini's factory reset process appears to be more susceptible to for some reason. This has been an issue long before Kobo stopped supporting the Mini.

And regarding SD card failures, I've already had to replace mine a few years ago. Remember that the Mini has the smallest SD card, so it'll naturally have a shorter life for equal usage.

There is planned obsolescence for the Mini, but I don't think it was through failed factory resets.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:06 AM   #10
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Since Kobo continues to support its other older models, I suspect there is a technical reason that the Mini is incompatible with the newer firmware. But I do not have the knowledge to explain what that might be.

I'm still wishing for a new Mini with the Comfort Light Pro.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calenorn View Post
Since Kobo continues to support its other older models, I suspect there is a technical reason that the Mini is incompatible with the newer firmware. But I do not have the knowledge to explain what that might be.
Kobo stopped updating the Mini at firmware version 3.14. But, they did release 3.19 for the Japanese market. I've never known why. Especially since, as I mentioned above, the current firmware still works on the Mini.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:44 AM   #12
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I've had issues multiple times with minis acting like this upon factory reset. I assume you're referring to the one where the coloured lights flash, but nothing actually ends up working.
The issue when trying from the device itself was that it gets an endless progress bar when trying to look for updated firmwares (during the mandatory initial setup). When trying from the desktop app I got the message:
Quote:
Please connect to the Internet
Oops, something happened to your internet connection and we couldn't finish your update. Please check your connection and try again.
This was blocking the device from finishing the setup and thus from starting properly.

(I realize now that I didn't describe this yet before. Sorry for that)
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:08 AM   #13
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Apple are VERY poor at supporting older devices compared to most of the rest of the industry. Kobo are far better than Kindle/Amazon, who are better than Apple. There are even court cases about Apple deliberately slowing older devices.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Apple are VERY poor at supporting older devices compared to most of the rest of the industry. Kobo are far better than Kindle/Amazon, who are better than Apple. There are even court cases about Apple deliberately slowing older devices.
What are you talking about, Apple still supports all 64-bit devices with iOS 14.6, so essentially down to the iPhone 6s.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:33 AM   #15
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What are you talking about, Apple still supports all 64-bit devices with iOS 14.6, so essentially down to the iPhone 6s.
They are better than Android, but an iPhone 5 released in 2012 the same year as the mini is no longer supported either. Also every Mac model released in 2012 is not officially compatible with Big Sur either. And Monterey is dumping some Macs as from 2015 like the 2015 12" MacBook and mid-2015 iMac 5K which ironically came out after the iPhone 6s.
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