Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > ePub

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-03-2021, 07:16 AM   #1
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
Including MIDI in ePub in general, in Sigil specifically?

Hi,

I'm contemplating writing an eBook on some music theme. So far I used Sigil for this purpose.

I've been able to include images (notation) and mp3-audio (listen to the notation) in a test document. What I couldn't do is including MIDI-files (the notation exported as .mid). I tried finding something in the ePub documentation, without success.

My intention is to allow readers to download or directly process the MIDI-snippets on their system, be it PC, some iOS device or similar. I'd be happy if the ePub just served as a container for the MIDI-files (download locally), as MIDI-players don't seem to be available on every device, while mp3-players seem to be.

So I wonder, if this is possible in general with ePub, and specifically with Sigil? (Sigil doesn't recognize .mid as an audio file.)


The alternative of course would be to store the MIDI-file-collection on my server and just provide links in the eBook.

I tend not to impose too many requirements on the users/readers system to give almost unlimited access to the content, with least inconvenience.


So, what's my best choice?

Thanks for your help in advance
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 07:42 AM   #2
Turtle91
A Hairy Wizard
Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Turtle91's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,243
Karma: 13610620
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charleston, SC today
Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2 & Air/Surface Pro/Kindle PW
ePub 2 didn't support audio - some devices did, but that isn't part of the spec.
ePub 3 does support audio formats of mp3 and AAC LC/mp4

I'd recommend converting the midi files to mp3 for better compatibility. You'll also hear people recommending developing your own app... they tend not to like ePub3, or think it isn't supported by a large enough number of devices.

Last edited by Turtle91; 05-03-2021 at 07:44 AM.
Turtle91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 05-03-2021, 07:59 AM   #3
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,145
Karma: 23321892
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
Do an app.
Most ebook apps and and most dedicated ebook readers don't support embedded audio. Many dedicated ebook readers either don't have audio at all, or need extra HW and sometimes FW.

eBooks are something either only read, no interactive and only still images, or else read out.

You can get free app frameworks and it's not hard. Easier than multimedia for DOS in mid 1980s.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 09:24 AM   #4
KevinH
Sigil Developer
KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,363
Karma: 3512716
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: many
No, I disagree completely. The end of older readers is coming and epub3 will support audio properly and there are many many available good epub3 readers.

Sigil will not recognize a .mid file as an epub audio media-type but epub3 does allow for remote resources to be included in the manifest. So I recommend sticking with epub3 and mp3 and hosting your midi files on your server with remote resource links in your epub3.

In my opinion, there seem to be an inordinate number of people on this site stuck on epub2 and clinging to their 10 year old e-readers while the world has moved on. Future epub versions are going to take this even further.
KevinH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 09:30 AM   #5
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
Hi, just spoiled my answer .. have to learn to operate THIS forum

Just as a short note:

MIDI is NOT intended to be listened to ... When you use a notation program (like Musescore) or a DAW (like GarageBand) you can export your "score" as MIDI ... and you can import it into said programs. It's just a format for interchange of scores i.e. sheet music.

So it's about re-using what the image said or the mp3 made audible.

The alternative is re-entering note by note, which is less than ideal.

So my basic idea is, regardless of implementation:
* see it (image)
* hear it (mp3)
* use it (via MIDI) // it's just some data; as long as it can be stored to some folder, it's fine for the musician

Last edited by MS-SPO; 05-03-2021 at 09:35 AM.
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 05-03-2021, 09:36 AM   #6
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
BTW, thanks for all your quick and substantial replies
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 09:40 AM   #7
KevinH
Sigil Developer
KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,363
Karma: 3512716
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: many
Have you thought about MusicXml? Being pure text and an extension of xml might make it more universal than midi files.
KevinH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 10:37 AM   #8
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
Interesting idea: will give it a try. Thanks
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 11:23 AM   #9
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
Just tried it: iOS GarageBand won't accept xml files.

So it may be jsut an other format to be provided ... somehow ...
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 12:23 PM   #10
j.p.s
Wizard
j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.j.p.s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,556
Karma: 62562809
Join Date: Apr 2011
Device: pb360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS-SPO View Post
Just tried it: iOS GarageBand won't accept xml files.

So it may be jsut an other format to be provided ... somehow ...
MuseScore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MuseScore

e.g. from https://musescore.org/en/node/110666

Code:
mscore file.xml -o file.midb
j.p.s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 01:51 PM   #11
Doitsu
Grand Sorcerer
Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Doitsu's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,189
Karma: 18533687
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS-SPO View Post
Thanks for your help in advance
You could use a little-known EPUBCheck loop hole and simply save them in the META-INF folder once you've finalized the epub.
(My sample file contains 2 .mid files and passes EPUBCheck.)
However, since there's no guarantee that DRM tools won't strip or encrypt these files, you might want to follow the other suggestions in this thread.

BTW, Sigil is much more picky than EPUBCheck when it comes to epub specs and will strip the .mid files.
Attached Files
File Type: epub midi_test.epub (5.0 KB, 9 views)
Doitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 02:40 PM   #12
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.p.s View Post
MuseScore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MuseScore

e.g. from https://musescore.org/en/node/110666

Code:
mscore file.xml -o file.midb
Thanks

Well what I tried to say is "I have to provide more than one format, like .mid and the .musicxml". But it looks like a good idea for batch job processing
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 03:03 PM   #13
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
(My sample file contains 2 .mid files and passes EPUBCheck.)
Thanks, that's pretty sophisticated However ... I can see both files when I unzip the epub, but for some reason don't have a META-INF folder visible in Sigil. So one way or the other, it's not accessible for the reader of such an eBook.

Well, I can place .mid files into the Misc folder in Sigil, but retrieval (i.e. download) is a problem. Some readers simply crash somehow ... e.g. from a line of code like this:

<a href ="../Misc/por-una-cabeza-piano-solo.mid">por-una-cabeza-piano-solo</a>

So, may be I'll stick to the idea, to link to my server, or find a very easy way to create Apps. The problems I have with Apps are:

* testing (on as many platforms as possible)
* time consuming and boring GUI-programming (just to process input and output ...) before being able to add a tiny bit of content ...
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 04:35 PM   #14
Turtle91
A Hairy Wizard
Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Turtle91's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,243
Karma: 13610620
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charleston, SC today
Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2 & Air/Surface Pro/Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Do an app.
Most ebook apps and and most dedicated ebook readers don't support embedded audio. Many dedicated ebook readers either don't have audio at all, or need extra HW and sometimes FW....
The problem with this logic (not that I'm against apps, mind) is that even if you created an app you wouldn't be able to use it on those devices anyway.... either they are dedicated e-readers that don't support apps, or they don't have the hardware/software to play sound... so, simply "making an app" doesn't open your material up to a larger consumer base... you are just ensuring that those users who can use the app have a more consistently usable product.
Turtle91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 12:20 AM   #15
MS-SPO
Junior Member
MS-SPO doesn't litterMS-SPO doesn't litter
 
Posts: 8
Karma: 100
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Device: iPad
Good remarks, Turtle91. Thanks
MS-SPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
epub, midi, music notation, music player

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boox Note/Max2: Question on making annotations to epub (and general handling of epub) johnnyb Onyx Boox 0 06-08-2018 06:59 AM
including custom columns in epub catalog Jade Aislin Library Management 2 07-13-2012 09:36 AM
Including Subseries and Index in Epub Catalog kazbates Library Management 0 07-02-2012 01:37 PM
epub to mobi error when including images HarrisS Conversion 1 02-08-2011 08:57 AM
Any way to specifically locate Google Books available as ePub? 4-eyes Sony Reader 4 09-07-2009 03:41 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:36 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.