Need Help with Sigil Formatting

[RatherBWriting]

Hi! I am a newbie, working on my first epub and using Sigil. I need help finding a few things, like how to number pages, how to insert more blank space between paragraphs on a page which has only three short paragraphs, and how to insert "separators" within a chapter when a new chapter is not called for, but there is a change in scene.

Is there a user guide?

Thanks so much -
RatherBWriting

[Turtle91]

The MR Wiki page has a lot of info for newbies.

I would highly recommend taking a couple hours and learning html and css styling. That will save you tons of effort later.

You can also look at some of the books in our library to see how others have accomplished what you are looking for.

Also, the Sigil forum has a lot of links that can help you with learning Sigil.

[DiapDealer]

Yes, there's a Sigil user guide, but you're going to need to ditch the concept of "pages" if you want to use Sigil to create a reflowable epub.

[RatherBWriting]

Thank you both! I have downloaded the user guide and will read it thoroughly.

I am not a stranger to html, having designed a website for my business (although it was many years ago) and more currently, an author's website. I am puzzled by the simple things that I cannot figure out!

Do I not have to arrange page numbering? I want the prologue to use Roman numerals, and the Arabic numerals to begin with Chapter One.

Thank you both for your help.

RatherBWriting

[phillipgessert]

Originally Posted by RatherBWriting

Thank you both! I have downloaded the user guide and will read it thoroughly.

I am not a stranger to html, having designed a website for my business (although it was many years ago) and more currently, an author's website. I am puzzled by the simple things that I cannot figure out!

Do I not have to arrange page numbering? I want the prologue to use Roman numerals, and the Arabic numerals to begin with Chapter One.

Thank you both for your help.

RatherBWriting

Those sorts of conventions only exist for printed books, not ebooks that reflow. There aren't pages per se, so: nothing to number.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by RatherBWriting

Thank you both! I have downloaded the user guide and will read it thoroughly.

I am not a stranger to html, having designed a website for my business (although it was many years ago) and more currently, an author's website. I am puzzled by the simple things that I cannot figure out!

Do I not have to arrange page numbering? I want the prologue to use Roman numerals, and the Arabic numerals to begin with Chapter One.

Thank you both for your help.

RatherBWriting

Since there are no 'Pages", you have no need of Numbers.
Sigil has a TOC (NCX) tool that builds from HTML Headers discovered.
My convention is:
H3 for all chapter-like sections
H2 for Books with Parts or Multiple books
I use H1 for the Bundle, otherwise I stick with the highest used
You can use h4,h5, h6 for mid levels bearing in mind that some devices hate 3+ level nesting.
You can also just place ID for anchors as a landing point.

IMHO Just write a section, chapter each as a file, then order them in the book browser, Generate the TOC (NDX) and save (you can save at any time.
Do learn to use a CSS linked to each section.

Find a couple of EPUB you like the looks of, then examine the code.
Sigil make finding the stylein in the CSS pretty easy find the 'style=blal" Right click it: Goto Link or style. Sigil will jump to the first definition (It is possible the Pub uses Cascading definitions, but that is not the most common)

[RatherBWriting]

Thank you for your reply. I may have overstated the "newbie" part. I am no stranger to a style sheet, or to coding in general. The TOC was created with no problems. I have specific questions, such as how to override the css to allow for more space between paragraphs on a specific page of the book. Sigil has been great to use. My epub is nearly finished, but there are a few quirks that remain.

I did not know that an epub does not have "page numbers". That will have to wait until the paperback version!

Thank you again for your help.
RatherBWriting

[DiapDealer]

You do not "override" the css to create more space between paragraphs on a specific page (and again... the page you're referring to does not exist. The content you're envisioning as being on the same page could, in fact, be spread across multiple "screens" on a reader's device depending on their personal settings). You change the html to identify the specific paragraphs you want more space in between, and then you create more space between them by applying new styles to those particular elements in your stylesheet.

[RatherBWriting]

Hi, DiapDealer - thank you for your reply. (And I promise to stop using the word "page".) Your response makes perfect sense! I will take out my textbooks about CSS and figure this out.

I appreciate your help. These things can be quite frustrating, especially when I am 98% finished.

RatherBWriting

[exaltedwombat]

If you want certain paragraphs to be more widely spaced, create a css Style with a bigger margin-top value and apply it to the next paragraph.

Don't worry about page numbers in an eBook. Apart from chapter breaks, which guarantee a new 'page' we don't know when the screen will have filled up on any particular device with its own screen size and (user-adjustable) text size.

When it comes to preparing a print edition, you'll doubtlessly be working in a page-based program that DOES give control over such things, and which takes care of page numbering automatically.

[Turtle91]

example -

CSS:
p               {whatever styling you want for normal paragraphs}
div.morespace p {margin-top:2em}


HTML:
<body>

<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>
<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>
<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>
<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>

<div class="morespace">
    <p>This is a paragraph with more space.</p>
    <p>This is a paragraph with more space.</p>
    <p>This is a paragraph with more space.</p>
</div>

<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>
<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>
<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>
<p>This is a normal paragraph.</p>

</body>

[JSWolf]

Just remember that an eBook is not a pBook and you cannot always expert the pBook format to work for an eBook. Make the eBook work as an eBook and do not try to duplicate the pBook format exactly.

For example, don't use chapter headers with overly large wasted space or offset text at a smaller size. Don't use paragraph spaces in the eBook as they don't work. Also, have the text full justified. But you only need to specify that once in the <body> class. Also, the main body text should not be given a font size so it an go with the default of 1em. Also, forget line-height as that doesn't work. Don't set a L/R margin. And don't embed fonts unless you have a need. Just trying to duplicate the fonts of the pBook doesn't work.

I've seen way too many eBooks make these mistakes and need fixing.

Here is a simple CSS that I ended up with after fixing the CSS.

blockquote {
  margin-top: 1em;
  margin-right: 1.5em;
  margin-bottom: 1em;
  margin-left: 1.5em;
}
body {
  widows: 1;
  orphans: 1;
  margin-top: 0;
  margin-right: 0;
  margin-bottom: 0;
  margin-left: 0;
  text-align: justify;
}
img {
  max-height: 100%;
  max-width: 100%;
}
p {
  margin-top: 0;
  margin-bottom: 0;
  text-indent: 1.2em;
}
.chapter {
  font-size: 2.2em;
  margin-top: 0.8em;
  margin-bottom: 0.8em;
}
.copy {
  font-size: small;
  text-align: center;
  text-indent: 0;
  margin-top: 0.8em;
}
.copy1 {
  font-size: small;
  text-align: center;
  text-indent: 0;
}
.coverpage {
  text-align: center;
  padding: 0;
  margin: 0;
}
.ded {
  font-size: large;
  text-align: center;
  text-indent: 0;
  margin-top: 3em;
}
.indent9 {
  padding-left: 1.8em;
}
.largecap {
  font-size: 2.2em;
  font-weight: bold;
  line-height: 0;
}
.noindent {
  text-indent: 0;
}
.part {
  font-size: 2.2em;
  margin-top: 3em;
  text-align: right;
}
.space {
  margin-top: 0.8em;
  text-indent: 0;
}
.space1 {
  margin-top: 1em;
}
.spacebreak {
  text-align: center;
  margin-top: 0.5em;
  margin-bottom: 0.5em;
}
table.padded {
  width: 100%;
}
td.left {
  text-align: left;
  vertical-align: top;
  text-indent: 0;
}

Here is a sample of the eBook code following <body>.

<h2 class="chapter">Chapter One</h2>
<p class="noindent"><span class="largecap">‘<b>T</b></span>here’s something very wrong here and I expect you to do something about it. Isn’t that what the police are for?’</p>
<p>Sergeant Troy observed his breathing, a trick he had picked up from a colleague at Police Training College who was heavily into T’ai Ch’i and other faddy Eastern pursuits. The routine came in very handy when dealing with abusive motorists, boot-deploying adolescents and, as now, with barmy old ladies.</p>
<p>‘Indeed we are, Miss…er…’ The sergeant pretended he had forgotten her name. Occasionally this simple manoeuvre caused people to wonder if their visit was really worth the bother and to drift off, thus saving unnecessary paperwork.</p>
<p>‘Bellringer.’</p>
<p>Chiming in, thought the sergeant, pleased at the speed of this connection and at his ability to keep a straight face. He continued, ‘But are you sure there’s anything here to investigate? Your friend was getting on in years, she had a fall and it was too much for her. It’s quite common, you know.’</p>
<p>‘Rubbish!’</p>
<p>She had the sort of voice that really got up his nose: clear, authoritative, upper upper middle class. I bet she’s ordered a few skivvies around in her time, he thought, the noun springing easily to mind. He and his wife enjoyed a good costume drama on the television.</p>
<p>‘She was as strong as an ox,’ Miss Bellringer stated firmly. ‘As an ox.’ There was a definite tremor on the repetition. Jesus, thought Sergeant Troy, surely the old bat wasn’t going to start snivelling. Mechanically he reached for the Kleenex under the counter and returned to his breathing.</p>

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

...
For example, o not use chapter headers with overly large wasted space or offset text at a smaller size. Don't use paragraph spaces in the eBook as they don't work. Also, have the text full justified. But you only need to specify that once in the <body> class. Also, the main body text should not be given a font size so it an go with the default of 1em. Also, forget line-height as that doesn't work. And do not set a L/R margin.

...

Just a reminder - these are Jon's opinions - they are what he likes, and doesn't like. These are NOT requirements or limitations.

Make sure that you are styling your book the way you want the book to look - but keep in mind that some of the opinions expressed in these forums come from people's experiences with different formats (eg really old style e-ink readers vs. new high definition large format tablets.) Make sure you take your target market's devices capabilities and limitations into account...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Just a reminder - these are Jon's opinions - they are what he likes, and doesn't like. These are NOT requirements or limitations.

Make sure that you are styling your book the way you want the book to look - but keep in mind that some of the opinions expressed in these forums come from people's experiences with different formats (eg really old style e-ink readers vs. new high definition large format tablets.) Make sure you take your target market's devices capabilities and limitations into account...

You missed my edits to the post. As for what you think is my opinion, the formatting I am describing is what works best for reading programs that have settings such as margins, line-height, font-size, and font choices.

[exaltedwombat]

You can do it @Turtle91's way if you like. Easier to just define an alternative paragraph style.

Your EPUB code may be compatible with more devices if you ALWAYS give a <p> tag an explicit style. So define a "p.normal" style as well as a "p.extra_space_above" one.

I agree with @JSWolf, white space is much more effective on the printed page than on screen. Don't fall into the trap of trying to make an eBook a fascimile of a well-designed printed page. It ain't going to happen!