What if they had a scheme to put a copy on to physical media and post that

nguyenthanhtam · 03-26-2021, 03:29 AM

The situation as I understand it is:

If Amazon.com sell me a pbook, the sale is deemed to take place where they are (US), so is OK for a US-only book, even though they ship it to me (in the UK).

If Amazon.com sell me an ebook, the sale is deemed to take place where I am (UK), so is not OK for the same US-only book.

What if they had a scheme to put a copy (DRM to my Kindle for PC if they like) on to physical media, and post that? Where would that have been sold - where they are presumably?

Would this be a way for a bookseller to circumvent geo restrictions, or would it not work? In practice, I guess the problem would be extending the DRM to allow the file to be imported, but the international Kindle offering is a bit rubbish (IMHO) at present without something like this because so many books are US-only.

Thoughts?

pwalker8 · 03-26-2021, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nguyenthanhtam

The situation as I understand it is:

If Amazon.com sell me a pbook, the sale is deemed to take place where they are (US), so is OK for a US-only book, even though they ship it to me (in the UK).

If Amazon.com sell me an ebook, the sale is deemed to take place where I am (UK), so is not OK for the same US-only book.

What if they had a scheme to put a copy (DRM to my Kindle for PC if they like) on to physical media, and post that? Where would that have been sold - where they are presumably?

Would this be a way for a bookseller to circumvent geo restrictions, or would it not work? In practice, I guess the problem would be extending the DRM to allow the file to be imported, but the international Kindle offering is a bit rubbish (IMHO) at present without something like this because so many books are US-only.

Thoughts?

There are many ways to get around geo restrictions. I doubt anyone would build a business model around the scheme you describe. It likely would violate the terms and conditions. While it's very unlike that anyone is going to go after individuals who violate the geo restrictions, a business is a different matter.

DiapDealer · 03-26-2021, 08:31 AM

Yeah. Businesses taking an active role in thwarting geo-restrictions isn't very likely. The legal risk would be too high.

jhowell · 03-26-2021, 09:23 AM

The georestrictions are part of the contract between the ebook seller and the publisher. Trying to work around the language of the contract by tying it to physical media would likely fail in court. The publisher might also retaliate by not making additional titles available to that seller.

Quoth · 03-26-2021, 11:38 AM

It's also expensive unless a whole series.

We are going to sell stuff on physical microSD cards. But that adds cost of card, time to reformat, copy, check it, post office time and cost of postage.

Then refunds are also more complicated.

Really the issue is the historic divving up the world, mostly between US based and UK based publishers and historically (up till 1960s) the USA often ignoring copyright of Non-USA content providers. Also related is differences in Libraries (UK & Ireland pay a per loan royalty) and for Music, the Performing Rights, which results in USA Radio stations paying less in royalty than European ones.

Many USA only titles, inc magazines had to be separately imported by UK & Ireland retailers as the wholesalers wouldn't stock them.

Publisher rights have historically been a mess. Geographically, translations, audio, ebooks, serialisations, animations, cinema, TV, plays and radio plays.
Amazon's solution is to be the only retail, wholesale and publisher.

Consult an expert lawyer regarding Agent and Publisher deals if you are an Author.

Some authors in UK and USA are objecting to the Housing of Random Penguins taking over Simon & Schuster. They claim it will result in less diverse publishing. I don't know about that, but certainly it might be good for consumers and Amazon is the Elephant in the Room that the authors are ignoring.

ownedbycats · 03-27-2021, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

It's also expensive unless a whole series.

We are going to sell stuff on physical microSD cards. But that adds cost of card, time to reformat, copy, check it, post office time and cost of postage.

RFC 1149 may be relevant here...

John F · 03-28-2021, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

It's also expensive unless a whole series.

We are going to sell stuff on physical microSD cards. But that adds cost of card, time to reformat, copy, check it, post office time and cost of postage.

Then refunds are also more complicated.

...

I wonder how those costs would compare to the costs of a paper book? I'm guessing the micro SD card route would be cheaper.

Quoth · 03-28-2021, 06:26 AM

In volume a paperback is actually about 50 cents. Excluding storage and shipping. Obviously even a homing pigeon is able to deliver a micro-SD Card and regular postage is less than a book now that special book postage rates are gone in most countries. A Print-On-Demand (POD) paperback is maybe twice to three times the cost of a cheap SD card.

I've no idea what the volume cost of a blank SD card is. Likely much more. Nor do I know what sort of production copying and testing exists, though I imagine it does. As a blank micro-SD card is a competitive mass produced item the margin on the prices of Chinese sellers may not be much.

03-26-2021, 03:29 AM	#1
nguyenthanhtam Banned Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2021 Device: none	What if they had a scheme to put a copy on to physical media and post that The situation as I understand it is: If Amazon.com sell me a pbook, the sale is deemed to take place where they are (US), so is OK for a US-only book, even though they ship it to me (in the UK). If Amazon.com sell me an ebook, the sale is deemed to take place where I am (UK), so is not OK for the same US-only book. What if they had a scheme to put a copy (DRM to my Kindle for PC if they like) on to physical media, and post that? Where would that have been sold - where they are presumably? Would this be a way for a bookseller to circumvent geo restrictions, or would it not work? In practice, I guess the problem would be extending the DRM to allow the file to be imported, but the international Kindle offering is a bit rubbish (IMHO) at present without something like this because so many books are US-only. Thoughts?

03-26-2021, 11:38 AM	#5
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,987 Karma: 103895653 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	It's also expensive unless a whole series. We are going to sell stuff on physical microSD cards. But that adds cost of card, time to reformat, copy, check it, post office time and cost of postage. Then refunds are also more complicated. Really the issue is the historic divving up the world, mostly between US based and UK based publishers and historically (up till 1960s) the USA often ignoring copyright of Non-USA content providers. Also related is differences in Libraries (UK & Ireland pay a per loan royalty) and for Music, the Performing Rights, which results in USA Radio stations paying less in royalty than European ones. Many USA only titles, inc magazines had to be separately imported by UK & Ireland retailers as the wholesalers wouldn't stock them. Publisher rights have historically been a mess. Geographically, translations, audio, ebooks, serialisations, animations, cinema, TV, plays and radio plays. Amazon's solution is to be the only retail, wholesale and publisher. Consult an expert lawyer regarding Agent and Publisher deals if you are an Author. Some authors in UK and USA are objecting to the Housing of Random Penguins taking over Simon & Schuster. They claim it will result in less diverse publishing. I don't know about that, but certainly it might be good for consumers and Amazon is the Elephant in the Room that the authors are ignoring. Last edited by Quoth; 03-26-2021 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Amazon

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03-26-2021, 08:31 AM	#3
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,558 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Yeah. Businesses taking an active role in thwarting geo-restrictions isn't very likely. The legal risk would be too high.

03-26-2021, 09:23 AM	#4
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,065 Karma: 91577715 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	The georestrictions are part of the contract between the ebook seller and the publisher. Trying to work around the language of the contract by tying it to physical media would likely fail in court. The publisher might also retaliate by not making additional titles available to that seller.

03-28-2021, 06:26 AM	#8
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,987 Karma: 103895653 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	In volume a paperback is actually about 50 cents. Excluding storage and shipping. Obviously even a homing pigeon is able to deliver a micro-SD Card and regular postage is less than a book now that special book postage rates are gone in most countries. A Print-On-Demand (POD) paperback is maybe twice to three times the cost of a cheap SD card. I've no idea what the volume cost of a blank SD card is. Likely much more. Nor do I know what sort of production copying and testing exists, though I imagine it does. As a blank micro-SD card is a competitive mass produced item the margin on the prices of Chinese sellers may not be much.

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