What are options for this circumstance?

[Dabcar]

Hi Everyone,

I am seeking advice and comment on what is the best course to take with the following circumstances:

We are hoping to provide ebooks for a smallish interest-group community via our website. We won't be publishing the ebooks via any of the major ebook outlets. Those downloading these ebooks will possibly have various devices.

Are we best to:

• Keep the ebook to one format (EPUB) and advise what e-readers to use?
• Or, also provide a few mobi/kindle versions to side-load for those that have Kindles?
• Supply information on how to upload the epub version to Kindle (changing the .epub extion to .txt)

We are hoping to make this as simple as possible for both us and the user without going down the PDF course.

Any suggested approaches are welcome.

[JSWolf]

The best solution is to provide ePub, KF8 (AZW3) and Mobi (for older Kindles that do not support KF8). That will cover all of your users. Anyone without a Kindle will be able to read ePub and anyone with a Kindle will be able to read KF8 or Mobi.

[Dabcar]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The best solution is to provide ePub, KF8 (AZW3) and Mobi (for older Kindles that do not support KF8). That will cover all of your users. Anyone without a Kindle will be able to read ePub and anyone with a Kindle will be able to read KF8 or Mobi.

Thanks. What, then, about Kindle for iOS. Perhaps, just suggest they use EPUB on iBooks?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Dabcar

Thanks. What, then, about Kindle for iOS. Perhaps, just suggest they use EPUB on iBooks?

They can read ePub using iBooks/Books. They can also install some other app to read ePub. There's no need to cater to Kindle for iOS as that uses a rather odd format. iPads can handle ePub just fine.

There is no device that I know of where one of the three formats (ePub, KF8, or Mobi) will not work.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Dabcar

without going down the PDF course

Ultimately, you'll want to supply it in 2 or 3 (maybe 4) formats:

• EPUB
  
  • EPUB2 (or EPUB3 designed with backwards-compatibility in mind)
• Kindle (MOBI/KF8)
  
  • Just generate a "dual format MOBI" using Kindle Previewer. This includes a MOBI for old devices, KF8 for new devices.
    
  • Do not touch KFX.
• PDF ("Recommended")
  
  • Sadly, this is still one of the most common/well-known formats. (See note below.)
• HTML directly on the site. (Optional)
  
  • If you design your EPUB properly, the HTML version can be derived from that.

You provide all the formats, and the user can choose whatever they're most comfortable with.

EPUB/MOBI are true ebooks, PDFs are "Print" focused, and HTML is used for very easy access (works in any browser/device, found via search engines, etc.).

I wrote about a lot of this last year in "Workflow for simultaneous EPUB and PDF production?"

Also, see my 2013 posts in "commercial software for Kindle/mobi from scanned math texts" (especially Posts #14+).

Overall, not much has changed.

Originally Posted by Dabcar

We are hoping to make this as simple as possible for both us and the user [...]

lol. That's a funny one.

If you're hosting books on your own site, get prepared for a massive amount of customer support.

* * *

PDF Note: ... in 2018, I digitized over 100 Economics books for a site, and guess what...

When only EPUB+MOBI+HTML were supplied, customer support was flooded with "Where are the PDFs?"... the vast majority of people STILL have no clue what EPUB/MOBI even is.

The sad reality is, PDFs are what people know... and "everyone can read it". If I remember the stats correctly, >75% of ebook downloads were PDF.

(The site is geared towards high-school/college-age too... so I would've assumed more technically savvy.)

Side Note: It could also be that PDFs are "searchable" by search engines, while EPUB/MOBI aren't. Plus, when people are searching for book downloads, they most likely type in "Book Title + PDF".

* * *

And learning how to sideload? Don't make me laugh...

My recommendation:

Supply it in all formats possible, put it up for sale on Amazon/B&N/Kobo (all other stores), and if the customer has a problem, they can purchase the ebook from them (and let THEIR customer support deal with it).

PS. And I'm talking PROPER formats, not a crappy EPUB->PDF conversion via Calibre. Or Archive.org's fake "EPUBs" (auto-OCRed from PDF scans).

[BetterRed]

@Dabcar - I faced this issue a few years ago, distributing documents to a closed user group who had different devices, some users had more than one e.g. a Kindle and an iPad.

About 80% of the documents were uploaded as EPUB, KF8 and MOBI, and 20% as PDF, the latter had lots of tables, infographs etc. Some documents (urgent ones) were only made available on a secure website as web pages.

Publishing on Amazon/Kobo was out of the question, they were 'secrets'.

Eventually the whole kit and caboodle was turned into an ios/android game app using a x-platform development tool… Unify… Unity… something like that.



@Tex2002ans FWIW: the content of EPUBs are searchable on Windows if you install an EPUB IFilter ==>> Content Search EPUB. And IIRC the DOCFetcher tool can also search content of EPUBs - on Windows, Linux and MacOS.

BR

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

@Tex2002ans FWIW: the content of EPUBs are searchable on Windows if you install an EPUB IFilter ==>> Content Search EPUB. And IIRC the DOCFetcher tool can also search content of EPUBs - on Windows, Linux and MacOS.

Meant by search engines. :P

Now, the day Google/Bing/others flip the switch on that, I think it'll be a glorious day.

[binaryhermit]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is no device that I know of where one of the three formats (ePub, KF8, or Mobi) will not work.

Wouldn't surprise me if there's some old reader, like, that predates the Kindle, that doesn't .

Also, I think that weird openreader thing that's literally based off an Arduino only does .txt files.

But that's an extreme corner case, to the point where anyone in that situation probably has a way to interface with the rest of the world such as using Calibre for conversion

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

But that's an extreme corner case, to the point where anyone in that situation probably has a way to interface with the rest of the world such as using Calibre for conversion

Exactly.

MOBI/KF8 works in all Kindle readers.

EPUB works in all non-Kindle readers.

PDF works on PC (and wherever else you want to read that). (In the case of Non-Fiction, many tend to prefer this format for citations.)

HTML works everywhere you have a browser...

and anything else can be converted on a case-by-case basis from one of those formats (EPUB is what I prefer as source).

[Dabcar]

Thanks, everyone, that is most helpful.

The reason for not doing PDF was that many of these books will be sold. Iit seems that people get the idea that PDFs (even bought ones) are somehow free to distribute to others. I know, if anyone wants, they can pass on an epub, but most are less inclined to do so. Anyway, I'll give that some further thought.

Thanks, Tex2002ans, for the links and explanations.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

EPUB works in all non-Kindle readers.

Minor nit. One acquaintance is still using an old Sony PRS-500 ereader which she never bothered to send to Sony for the update to allow EPUB so she's stuck with LRF. There's one in every crowd...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Minor nit. One acquaintance is still using an old Sony PRS-500 ereader which she never bothered to send to Sony for the update to allow EPUB so she's stuck with LRF. There's one in every crowd...

There is no way to sell this on any other site.

Also, I do hope this eBook is going to be sold without DRM.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by Dabcar

...
I am seeking advice and comment on what is the best course to take with the following circumstances:

We are hoping to provide ebooks for a smallish interest-group community via our website. We won't be publishing the ebooks via any of the major ebook outlets. Those downloading these ebooks will possibly have various devices.
...

The exact nature of the ebooks and their structure (tables and other formatting requirements) does influence what formats are appropriate.

Outside of that, I would suggest considering the format list that Project Gutenberg uses. In addition to inventing the ebook, they maintain the largest ebook library on the planet. They provide ePub, classic Mobi, and TXT in addition to HTML webpages for reading online in a browser. The Faded Page offers a similar list of format options, but does add PDF to the list.

Providing classic Mobi and ePub formats will cover the vast majority of reading devices and software. Adding the modern Amazon AZW3 format would offer more advanced formatting options for modern Amazon Kindle & Fire devices and Kindle software.

I wouldn't suggest adding PDF to your list unless your ebooks' formatting requirements (requirements, not designer's whims) force you to use a fixed page layout. If so, then standard ePub, classic Mobi, and AZW3 aren't viable options.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dabcar

Thanks, everyone, that is most helpful.

The reason for not doing PDF was that many of these books will be sold. Iit seems that people get the idea that PDFs (even bought ones) are somehow free to distribute to others. I know, if anyone wants, they can pass on an epub, but most are less inclined to do so. Anyway, I'll give that some further thought.

Thanks, Tex2002ans, for the links and explanations.

With all due respect, they don't treat ePUB or MOBI any different way. And with Calibre being around, someone can turn your ePUB or MOBI into a distributable PDF in about 30 seconds, too.

And with more all due respect, I think you have absolutely NO idea what the tech support requirements will be like. I tell people this all the time, and they assume I'm being a drama queen, but my second largest expense, in my company, behind my direct labor costs for my bookmakers, is unpaid tech support. And mind you, we TELL our customers that we're not tech support, we don't provide tech support.

Today? Today I had to walk a woman through opening her PDF, in acrobat Reader, because she was FURIOUS that the icons my handout says should be visible, weren't. Why? Because her Windows computer was opening it in Edge and of course, figuring that out is "too hard."

At least 4x daily, one of my bookmakers needs me, to walk a customer through simply DOWNLOADING files. The average person apparently thinks that 'downloading" means, clicking a link in an email. If they don't have a program on their computer that will open that file, when they click it, OMG, the world will come to an end.

SIDELOADING? Trying to get a file onto their device? MWAHAHAHAHA. If Amazon, iBooks or B&N isn't delivering it through the magic of wifi, fuhgeddaboutit. And when they sideload that file to their iPad and it looks like crap? Which, no matter WHAT you say on your website, they're going to do? Then what? Someone going to sit on the phone with them, walk them through connecting their iPad to their computer, through iTunes and oh, yeah, tell them how to build an AZK file, too?

I've told this story here before--since 2010, we've had a number of professional customers, lawyers, doctors, etc., decide that they didn't want to pay Amazon, et al, so they would sell their eBooks form their own website. Right? They had web guys, a digital cart, yadda.

Of all of those customers, do you know how many still do that?

NONE. Not one. Every single one gave it up because the unpaid tech support demands were so excessive that they decided that they'd much, much rather pay Amazon than have to deal with it themselves. They got tired of answering emails, phone calls; one guy had his office manager QUIT over it, because of course, answering angry customer emails, that's clerical stuff, right? How was she supposed to know why someone's computer wouldn't let him do X or Y?

I mean..you're not going to listen to me, so...have at it. BUT...when you feel like pulling your hair out, don't say that nobody warned you. I swear, I'm not trying to be Dora Doom, but...everybody I know in the biz says exactly the same thing. I've driven myself to insanity, writing, rewriting, videoing, etc., instructions, to NO avail. People can run smartphones and post on social media. After that...well. If you're the one that will get stuck doing this, RUN.

Hitch

[Frizzell]

Originally Posted by Dabcar

We are hoping to make this as simple as possible for both us and the user without going down the PDF course.

Any suggested approaches are welcome.

I'm not sure why PDF appears to be a 'stand-offish' format, since there's hardly a tablet cell phone, PC or Mac on the planet that can't view PDFs. Even Kindle reads PDF Documents, although unless everyone in the group has Calibre installed so they can send it straight to their device, Amazon forces you to email your material to your web-based Kindle Library, regardless of the format (.mobi, .pdf, .docx, .txt, etc.) using your personally assigned email address (found on Amazon's site under the details of your device" located within the Kindle "Manage Your Content" link— top-row-tab— "Devices" (now wasn't that easy.... yeh, right).

Anyway,if I had to make a similar decision as yours, I'd use PDF, no question about it.

Frizzell