Questions Re: Work Flow for Multiple Versions

[SigilBear]

Apologies for a long-winded question(s), but any tips at all would be helpful. I suspect this question has been asked before, so maybe someone could just point me to an existing discussion or a relevant article on another site.

I'm new to epubs. I recently started out working with InDesign, but I found the learning curve pretty steep, plus I was amazed to learn that you can't work directly with HTML. So I switched to Sigil, which I love, except that you can't put subfolders in the Images folder, which is why I'm going to check out Calibre. I also need to learn how to work with iBooks Author, as I hope to create versions for both Amazon and iBooks.

I also want to learn how to make fixed layouts; I've only made reflowable epubs so far.

So here's my question: What would be a good work flow if I want to create FOUR versions of an epub, as follows:

1. Amazon Kindle (reflowable)
2. Amazon Kindle (fixed)
3. iBooks (reflowable)
4. iBooks (fixed)

I assume it's generally easier to create a reflowable epub, then convert it to a fixed layout, rather than vice versa.

But is it easier to create a Kindle version, then convert it to an iBooks format, or vice versa?

I think I read somewhere that you can import an epub into iBooks, then convert it to Apple's format. I haven't yet learned if you can do the opposite - import an epub made with iBooks into InDesign, Sigil, etc.

If iBooks gives you access to the HTML, then I'd be tempted to create a fixed layout in iBooks first, then somehow convert it to an Amazon Kindle version.

However, I'm going to begin by creating a simple website in Dreamweaver, which I can then import into an epub program (Sigil, iBooks Author, etc.).

Thanks for any tps.
Thanks for any tips!

[jhowell]

I am curious about your plan to have the same book in both reflowable and fixed layout. Is that just for practice in creating the book or do you plan to actually publish it? And what sort of book is it?

In the kindle world a book is generally either published as reflowable or fixed layout, not both. Fixed layout is only used for certain types of books that do not display well in reflowable layout: children's books (mostly graphics with few words), comics/manga (all images), and textbooks (handled as PDF).

[SigilBear]

The answer is both: I want to do it for practice (I've almost finished my first reflowable epub, and I want to learn how to make a fixed layout epub), but I'm also planning on selling both versions.

My understanding is that reflowable epubs are generally more profitable simply because they can be read on the widest variety of devices. However, I think my book would work best as a fixed layout project, as it will include a lot images, some of them pretty big.

If I had to choose between one or the other, I'd go with fixed layout. But I'm thinking of creating a simpler reflowable version, just to accommodate people who can only view it on cell phones, for example.

Then again, maybe the cell phone market is too small to bother with? I mean, millions of people have cell phones, but how many use them for reading epubs?

[jhowell]

Even image heavy books, such as travel guides, are generally published in reflowable layout.

In any case you should look at the Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines for the details on formatting both reflowable and fixed layout books for the kindle platform.

[SigilBear]

Hmmmm... lots to think about. I could certainly finish my book much faster if I just made it reflowable. I wonder about the possibility of creating a reflowable version and inserting an ad announcing a fixed layout version (probably at a higher price). Perhaps I could even offer discounts to people who have purchased the reflowable version. Is it possible to somehow put unique ID's in epubs, so you can keep track of purchases? In other words, someone could tell me they own a book with the serial number 10028, and I could verify that that number exists in a database.

[Turtle91]

I think there are probably quite a few people who use their phones to read ebooks - at least some of the time (I use my phone exclusively). There are certainly people who use both a dedicated device as well as one that is with them wherever they go...

The size of your image doesn't really need to dictate the type of format either. As far as I'm aware, most newer readers/apps have a function to zoom & pan on an image if the user wants to see it in more detail - usually by tapping on the image. The biggest reason I can see for a fixed format is if you have text that must always remain at a certain fixed position relative to the image. Otherwise normal text, with an accompanied image is easily handled with a reflowable format.

[SigilBear]

OK, I'll give it some more thought. As I understand it, you can do more "special effects" with a fixed layout, so I thought that might be a good format for a really nice book that makes optimal use of images, maps and table. But my first book is simple enough to work as a reflowable epub.

[JSWolf]

To create a Kindle reflowable book, first create an ePub eBook. Get that validated and looking as you want. Then when you run that through Kindlegen, you will have a Kindle reflowable eBook.

[Notjohn]

I do only the epub. It's reflowable. I include the cover and save it as mybookD2D.epub and upload that to Draft2Digital, which takes care of the iBooks Store (or iBookstore or whatever Apple is calling it today) and several others. I then save the same epub as mybookKDP.epub and delete the cover and the associated image. I upload that version to the KDP and to Google Play.

I continue as if mybookD2D.epub were the only one. If I have changes to make, I make it to that version, then save it as ...KDP... etc and go through the same routine again.

Of course if I have to make significant changes, I make them also to the OpenOffice Writer document if (as is usually the case) there's also a print edition. So I do have to maintain two versions of the book in most cases, but never more than two.

I have found that making the same change in two versions of an epub is a recipe for making a mistake of omission or commission.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Apologies for a long-winded question(s), but any tips at all would be helpful. I suspect this question has been asked before, so maybe someone could just point me to an existing discussion or a relevant article on another site.

I'm new to epubs. I recently started out working with InDesign, but I found the learning curve pretty steep, plus I was amazed to learn that you can't work directly with HTML. So I switched to Sigil, which I love, except that you can't put subfolders in the Images folder, which is why I'm going to check out Calibre. I also need to learn how to work with iBooks Author, as I hope to create versions for both Amazon and iBooks.

I also want to learn how to make fixed layouts; I've only made reflowable epubs so far.

So here's my question: What would be a good work flow if I want to create FOUR versions of an epub, as follows:

1. Amazon Kindle (reflowable)
2. Amazon Kindle (fixed)
3. iBooks (reflowable)
4. iBooks (fixed)

I assume it's generally easier to create a reflowable epub, then convert it to a fixed layout, rather than vice versa.

No. Not really. Nor is it "simple" or "easy" to do the reverse.

Fortunately or unfortunately, despite what all the blather says, you can't just create a fixed-layout book from a reflowable, nor the reverse. They are unrelated to each other. Moreover, the fixed-layouts (other than an overarching ePUB3), are not interchangeable, either. iBooks has its own set of requirements, as does Amazon, and they are NOTHING alike. I must get 5 emails a month--hell, more--asking me if we can "just convert" an iAuthor file (Christ help us all), or a fixed-layout ePUB into an FXL MOBI. Or I see posts on the KDP complaining about how they made a "perfect" FXL ePUB, and ran it through KG, and now their equally perfect FXL MOBI just...doesn't work! Why those cats can't read the PG, and see that the coding is nothing alike, I don't know.

Thus, you are at a minimum discussing--well, three-and-a-half files. You can create a solid reflowable ePUB and build a MOBI from that, with a modicum of tweaks (we copy our final ePUB, then make media-query mods to the CSS, and another thing or two to it, and then build the MOBI from that using either Kindlegen or KP). So, that's kind of a book-and-a-half.

However, the other two have to be done, pretty much by hand, each separately. Hell, you could try INDD's "fxl export," but the underlying code is just...terrifying. Seeing each individual word surrounded by an ocean of coding...ick.

But is it easier to create a Kindle version, then convert it to an iBooks format, or vice versa?

See above. That does not work, nor does the inverse/reverse. Period.

I think I read somewhere that you can import an epub into iBooks, then convert it to Apple's format. I haven't yet learned if you can do the opposite - import an epub made with iBooks into InDesign, Sigil, etc.

There is no good reason to do this. A solidly-constructed ePUB will function just fine on iBooks. If you mean to talk about iAuthor, that is a different story, and why would anyone who can create a scratch ePUB use that? It's a drag-drop, bloated interface for those who don't know how to make an eBook.

If iBooks gives you access to the HTML, then I'd be tempted to create a fixed layout in iBooks first, then somehow convert it to an Amazon Kindle version.

Well, good luck with that!! After you've yanked your hair out enough, we'll see you back here. :-)

However, I'm going to begin by creating a simple website in Dreamweaver, which I can then import into an epub program (Sigil, iBooks Author, etc.).

Oh. I see.

Thanks for any tps.
Thanks for any tips!

Well, I gave you mine, above. I suspect that you'll go ahead and try to do it by converting A to B, anyway, so...I doubt that my post is of much use to you.


Hitch

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Hitch

There is no good reason to do this. A solidly-constructed ePUB will function just fine on iBooks. If you mean to talk about iAuthor, that is a different story, and why would anyone who can create a scratch ePUB use that? It's a drag-drop, bloated interface for those who don't know how to make an eBook.

That's the best tip of all.

It sounds like iBooks Author is just Apple's version of InDesign, which means I don't have to waste any more time learning how to use InDesign or iBooks Author.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

That's the best tip of all.

It sounds like iBooks Author is just Apple's version of InDesign, which means I don't have to waste any more time learning how to use InDesign or iBooks Author.

I agree with your conclusion, but no, it's not like INDD. You basically have an interface that you can drag-drop crap onto, and it doesn't require ANY knowledge. A trained chimp could use it. Whereas INDD requires at least rubbing two brain-cells together, add a dash of tongue of learning and eye of took the tutorials to create a viable book.

It's not that I loathe Apple (cough, cough), but I get files from iBooks all. the. damn. time, and when I look under the hood, it ages me 5 years. Honestly, just DREADFUL.

Hitch

[SigilBear]

Wow, all that code bloat is weird. It's like going back to Microsoft's first website software; I can't even remember the name of it now, but ditching it for Dreamweaver was like stepping into the 21st century.

[Notjohn]

I get files from iBooks all. the. damn. time, and when I look under the hood, it ages me 5 years

So you're really 25, as I have suspected all along, and it's only Apple that makes you claim to senior status?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

So you're really 25, as I have suspected all along, and it's only Apple that makes you claim to senior status?

LOL...damn, I WISH! I'm at that point where I think that mirrors in my home should be banned, or at the least, covered up. :-)

Hitch