Expandable TOC?

[JazzyJ]

Hi, does anyone know how I can get/activate an expandable TOC on my Kobo Glo?

1) Is there any version of 'Nickel' that supports an expandable TOC?
2) Is there another OS that I can use on Kobo Glo that supports expandable TOC
2b) Is there any other OS that is actually 'good', 'functional' and 'nice looking' that supports expandable TOC (koreader is a 'filemanager' without a desktop).
3) Do other e-readers (Kindle, Nook etc.) support expandable TOC?
4) Why does Kobo Nickel not support expandable TOC? Surely this is a really, really, really, really basic feature....
5) How do you complain/contact Kobo and actually speak/connect with someone who will take notice in order for them to add basic funtionality of an expanable TOC with a future update?

Moonreader app on my android phone supports expandable TOC, why is this a missing feature on specifically made e-readers? It's ridiculous.

It's impossible to navigate through a Bible, Bible commentary an encyclopedia or any large book (Epub) without an expandalbe TOC - you just scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll...................and then turn the power off.

Thanks for your help.

[ZodWallop]

Jazzy, click here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=281072

[JazzyJ]

Thanks for the link Zod but that doesn't answer my questions.

I want an e-reader with an expandable TOC and I want to know what OS and what e-reader has that?

1) Kobo - does any gereric Kobo model have an expandable TOC?
1b) Are there any mods/Hacks/OS that can be used in Kobo so that it can have an expandable TOC? (and what is the downside - battery life etc)
2) What is the situation regarding other E-readers, their native OS's and potential mods/Hacks/OS

It's mad that using my phone and moonreader I have an expandable TOC - but when buying a specific e-reader I don't.

There must be a simple solution.

In the 'comparison' section of mobileread.com there's no mention of TOC features - which I think is an undersight - it's a deal breaker regarding basic usability. Without being able to navigate in an e-book it negates the whole e-book industry.

It's like changing from petrol cars to a new fuel. Only thing is, when using the new fuel the maximum speed is 10 miles an hour........

If I can't get to a chapter in a book using an e-reader, then I'm better of with a real book! I find it mind boggling that a simple collapsable TOC is not part of an e-reader OS!

[JazzyJ]

Ok, I've just found out that a Kindle Paperwhite recognises expandable TOC.

Great. Job done.

So the ONLY e-reader I've heard about so far is Kindle.

Would be great if I could use the Kindle OS on my Kobo - but I've not see that yet.

Therefore, it will cost me £80 for a new reader (black Friday) simply to have the privilige of being able to navigate to a chapter in a larger book.

An absloute joke. Rip off and daylight robbery, for what should be a standard feature.

A Sinclair ZX81 is on the same level as an e-reader in 2016......

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by JazzyJ

Thanks for the link Zod but that doesn't answer my questions.

Jazzy, did you even read my link?

You are asking the question in the wrong section and that's why you aren't getting the answers you want.

The link was to your first question that had been moved to the right forum by a moderator.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JazzyJ

Hi, does anyone know how I can get/activate an expandable TOC on my Kobo Glo?

1) Is there any version of 'Nickel' that supports an expandable TOC?
2) Is there another OS that I can use on Kobo Glo that supports expandable TOC
2b) Is there any other OS that is actually 'good', 'functional' and 'nice looking' that supports expandable TOC (koreader is a 'filemanager' without a desktop).
3) Do other e-readers (Kindle, Nook etc.) support expandable TOC?
4) Why does Kobo Nickel not support expandable TOC? Surely this is a really, really, really, really basic feature....
5) How do you complain/contact Kobo and actually speak/connect with someone who will take notice in order for them to add basic funtionality of an expanable TOC with a future update?

Moonreader app on my android phone supports expandable TOC, why is this a missing feature on specifically made e-readers? It's ridiculous.

It's impossible to navigate through a Bible, Bible commentary an encyclopedia or any large book (Epub) without an expandalbe TOC - you just scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll, and scroll...................and then turn the power off.

Thanks for your help.

Join the list of people who have asked for expandable/nested TOCs. As far as I know, neither Amazon (Kindle) or Barnes & Noble (Nook) support nested TOCs on their eInk devices. Sony'd ereaders did. For a Kobo device -- though I have never tested this -- an epub3 ebook will support up to 3 levels of nesting using nav.xhtml according to Kobo's GitHub epub-spec information.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JazzyJ

An absloute joke. Rip off and daylight robbery, for what should be a standard feature.

A Sinclair ZX81 is on the same level as an e-reader in 2016......

Ummm.... I had a Sinclair ZX81. I don't remember any ebook reading software for it.

As for nested TOCs, most fiction ebooks do not have the level of complexity in their table of contents to require nested TOCs and those are the vast majority of ebooks sold. I personally would like the feature but in my ~6000 ebook collection, there are 7 of them that would really benefit from a nested TOC. One of those gets around the TOC limitation by placing a TOC page at the start of each chapter to allow a small master TOC to get to the chapter and then the chapter TOC for finer control.

What you seem to be demanding is that your ereader support a feature that a very small minority of users would care about.

[ZodWallop]

As I mentioned in the clone Which One Should I Buy thread, there's also the option of an e-ink device that runs Android. Then you could use Moonreader on that.

[Ken Maltby]

I have seen expandable TOC work on a very few epubs, using KOReader. The main issue you will encounter is that few epubs include the needed structure, implemented in a useable manner.

While I started using KOReader because it uses a File Manager approach, there is some work over at the KOReader project on Github, to implement a new User Interface someday.

Luck;
Ken

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

I have seen expandable TOC work on a very few epubs, using KOReader. The main issue you will encounter is that few epubs include the needed structure, implemented in a useable manner.

While I started using KOReader because it uses a File Manager approach, there is some work over at the KOReader project on Github, to implement a new User Interface someday.

What I've found is that implementing a nested TOCs on a epub leads to the issue that an ereader that does not support nested TOCs will only show the first set of entries if the usual playing with the </navpoint> tags to nest entries is done.

[JazzyJ]

Thanks everyone for your insight and experience! Really cool!.

Theses are my current thoughts regarding expandable TOC's.

1) Most of the books I buy don't have an appropriate TOC so I nearly always have to do it myself in Calibre.
2) If an OS and/or E-reader is able to recognise an expandable TOC, the ones I've done in Calibre always work.
3) Android and Moonreader recognises expandable TOC but I either have to use on a 'tablet' or 'smart phone' which is not easy to read in sunlight etc. - or I have to put android on an e-reader (ink) which seems to be sluggish and drains the battery faster than normal.
3b) The Illumina 6" E654BK is an android E-Ink reader that might be the Holy Grail but their website doesn't mention how many hours of battery life can be expected - whereas 'hours of battery life' is a MAIN advertising component of all other e-readers - meaning that the Illumina will almost certainly have a low battery life....
https://www.icarusreader.com/index.p...product_id=239
4) KoReader on Kobo regognises expandable TOC's but the downside is no 'desktop' - essentially it's a filemanager. (This is currently my best option and I'm 'content' with this)
5) Coolreader does not recognise expandable TOC's
6) A generic Kindle Paperwhite reads expandable TOC's - downside is the KP has no option for more storage (SD card etc.)

So as far as I know currently, apart from using android and an app, the ONLY e-reader that can natively read expandable TOC's is the Kindle Paperwhite but any e-reader that can run KoReader can too.

My preferred choice will be to go and buy a Kindle Paperwhite - which hurts..........

Saying that, the Kindle store still sells most books with terrible (or no) Table of Contents and so hours of editing in Calibre is needed irrespectively in order to sort it out. I've been thinking of 'selling' the book back to the publishers with a proper TOC so that they can 'update' it in the Kindle store so that other users don't have to go through the same process as I have to.....

[JazzyJ]

Originally Posted by DNSB

What you seem to be demanding is that your ereader support a feature that a very small minority of users would care about.

Essentially larger books - Bible, commentaries, encyclopedias, reference books etc. need to have expandable TOC's in order to be able to navigate them, otherwise they are unusable and and fail to 'replace' a real book.

What portion of the book market require these type of books I don't know but I imagine students and universities would fall into this category. Perhaps this is why they haven't gone the 'e-reader' route and most academic books are only available in paper format?

[anacreon]

I do read a number of books that would need an expandable TOC, and my workaround for this is to play (in Sigil) between TOCs at the front of the epub and the TOC as it appears on the reader.

The most extreme case, recently, is with a 672 pages long Spanish grammar with no decent TOC and no hyperlinks. I inserted at the front of the book a synthetic TOC (to level 3) and a detailed one (to level 5), while the one I call from the book goes to level 4 - 63 pages on the Kobo One, but it allows me to navigate locally. It was an hours long work, but worth it in that case.

In less nested books (complete works for instance), I usually insert one TOC at the front with one or two levels more detail than the one callable when reading.

[dordale]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Join the list of people who have asked for expandable/nested TOCs. As far as I know, neither Amazon (Kindle) or Barnes & Noble (Nook) support nested TOCs on their eInk devices. Sony'd ereaders did. For a Kobo device -- though I have never tested this -- an epub3 ebook will support up to 3 levels of nesting using nav.xhtml according to Kobo's GitHub epub-spec information.

Correction--the Amazon e-ink Kindles do support nested table of contents. When I'm reading my Bible, I use my Kindles (or my older Sonys) because it really is impossible to navigate on my Kobo Aura HD.

I do wish the Kobos had nested TOC's!

[MGlitch]

I know Nooks used to have the nested TOC feature, but it was removed quite some time back the reason handed down to customers was that enabling nested TOCs caused too much of a slow down in processing. Which was odd given that it didn't seem to be an issue prior to the firmware that removed the feature.