Subjects and Tags

duskstar · 09-12-2016, 06:26 AM

However I add books to Marvin 3.0, whether from Dropbox or via ODPS, it adds books with "subjects and tags" and I cannot tell where they're them pulling from. All of my tag fields on Calibre are empty, and whilst I have defined #customshelves, it's completely ignoring those. I find this really frustrating as I have a very large library and I tend to browse it by categories I have predefined and sorted. I could deal with it if it was just ignoring them completely (hopefully which will change when a calibre/Marvin plugin exists again), but where is it finding the stuff it's adding and is there a way I can stop it from doing so? It's really inconsistent and is driving me crazy!

MSWallack · 09-12-2016, 09:39 AM

I have the same problem from time-to-time (also using Calibre). It would be really helpful if Marvin offered a quick way to delete all of a particular tag (not the book, just the tag).

JKenP · 09-12-2016, 09:49 AM

Marvin is a reader. Calibre is a library manager. I think they both serve their intended purpose well. Screen-size alone makes Calibre the best choice for the library manager. In my case, Marvin on holds books I intend to read soon which makes it easy to work with. When I've read the book on Marvin, I remove it.

I understand that some need more when working with reference material. But for simple reading, its easy to manage things via Marvin-Dropbox-Calibre.

duskstar · 09-12-2016, 06:17 PM

@ JKenP

The point isn't trying to make Marvin into a library manager - I specifically don't want it to do that, which is what happening when it's somehow adding its own tags. I want to be able to manage the library in Calibre (which I do) and have the things that help me read and enjoy my library on Marvin. In this case, having my books sorted into the predefined genres I have used on Calibre. I do not see the point of not having all my ebooks to hand on all my devices, because that's the joy of ebooks; you can always find what you want to read, which means that there are almost 4,000 books in my Marvin library, therefore having a way to browse through them more granularly is useful. I appreciate that your method works for you, but it doesn't really seem relevant to my question.

eschwartz · 09-12-2016, 09:37 PM

You can use a calibre Metadata Plugboard to clear the tags field when downloading from the Content Server (or sending to device, or both, or whatever).

...

It is very true that ideally you will handle this all via calibre (the ebook source) itself.

cedhax · 09-13-2016, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSWallack

I have the same problem from time-to-time (also using Calibre). It would be really helpful if Marvin offered a quick way to delete all of a particular tag (not the book, just the tag).

@MSWallack
Agreed. Actually such a solution already exists in MapleRead, which has a very nice system for managing tags.

@duskstar
See if that's what you want. Perhaps this will further stimulate a similar solution in Marvin 3 in the future.

JKenP · 09-13-2016, 02:05 PM

The bulk metadata edit will remove all tags, if you don't use them.

If you asked in Calibre, there might be a script you can insert to keep them from transferring out. That'd be in the write to disk for most of us.

If that doesn't work, I can see why you'd want to ignore tags on a phone. Maybe Marvin could have an Ignore Tags checkbox.

MSWallack · 09-14-2016, 10:13 AM

But the weird thing is that the tags that show up in Calibre are correct but when the book gets to Marvin, additional tags are present. When I first load a book into Calibre, I clear all of the tags (I only want to use my own). Then I add those tags that are needed. But some books, when I send them to Marvin, seem to include the tags that I deleted in Calibre.

JKenP · 09-14-2016, 11:34 AM

You're right. It is weird. I think sharing that message in the Calibre forum might see it resolved. Sounds like it might be a database error there.

duskstar · 09-15-2016, 06:19 AM

I do exactly what @MSWallacl does. My tag fields in Calibre are all totally clear, because I do handle all of this in there, hence why I think it's a Marvin glitch, not a Calibre one. I don't understand where Marvin is pulling these mysterious subjects and tags from, as it is ignoring my "custom metadata" in Calibre which I have set up as custom genre shelves. In the original version of Marvin, whenever and however I pulled books from Calibre (either through the plug in, via dropbox or using ODPS) it took my custom metadata and created collections. This time it is ignoring that and creating its own. And let me stress again that I keep all other tag fields in Calibre totally clear.

Doc Nightshade · 12-31-2016, 08:20 PM

Hi-- I know this thread is a few months old, but I'm having the same problem: mysterious subjects Marvin adds to books that aren't in the tags field in Calibre, or anywhere easy to get at. I haven't seen a solution posted anywhere else, but I have found a thing that works for me. It might be a bit of a bodge, so if you want to try this, I ***highly recommend*** that you back up your library first!

Okay, so where are those tags coming from: they are, as far as I can tell, embedded in the book itself, and that's whence Marvin is pulling them. These tags don't show up as tags in Calibre, so that's why you can't get rid of them in metadata edit. You can get rid of them, though: Calibre has a feature called 'Polish Books' which will, among other things, strip them out, leaving only the tags you have assigned in Tags. So, step by stem:

First, get your own tags in your Calibre library to be how you want them. If you use tags you have probably already done this.
Next, if you don't have the Polish Books button in your toolbar, go into preferences, toolbars, and enable it. It looks like a little broom.
Go back into your regular view. Select a book or books to edit and push the button. You'll get a number of options with tick boxes beside them. The one you want is 'Update metadata in the book files'. Tick that box, and let it work its magic. Note that if you have selected many books and you have a large library, this could take some time.

Calibre will create an ORIGINAL.EPUB file alongside your modified one (I imagine you can use this to restore the old metadata later, should you ever want to and you don't want to just download it from within metadata edit) but you can, if you need the space, safely delete it (or at least nothing awful happened when I deleted mine, but make sure you have your backup just in case).

Delete the old books from Marvin's library and re-import them, and you should see collections only under your own assigned tags.

This worked for me, anyway-- I hope someone finds it useful.

cedhax · 12-31-2016, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Nightshade

...
Okay, so where are those tags coming from: they are, as far as I can tell, embedded in the book itself, and that's whence Marvin is pulling them. These tags don't show up as tags in Calibre, so that's why you can't get rid of them in metadata edit. You can get rid of them, though: Calibre has a feature called 'Polish Books' which will, among other things, strip them out, leaving only the tags you have assigned in Tags. So, step by stem:
...

I consider it as a bug of Marvin. It is not a calibre bug. Apparently Marvin does not understand the tag information as embedded in the OPDS XML generated by Calibre Content Server, and chooses to show the tags embedded in EPUB books instead. I think the metadata of an OPDS entry should override those embedded in the book itself.

Another popular ebook reader app, MapleRead (used to be called BookMaster), used to have a similar problem. It was fixed almost exactly one year ago in v1.2. See
http://www.maplepop.com/web/mr/new_features.php#v120

For me, getting the bug fix from the app developer is a much better solution than hacking my calibre library reluctantly.

Turtle91 · 01-01-2017, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedhax

I consider it as a bug of Marvin. It is not a calibre bug. Apparently Marvin does not understand the tag information as embedded in the OPDS XML generated by Calibre Content Server, and chooses to show the tags embedded in EPUB books instead. I think the metadata of an OPDS entry should override those embedded in the book itself.

You don't seem to understand how Calibre works. There are two different and distinct locations for a book's metadata: 1) inside the book file itself, and 2) within Calibre's library folder. Whenever you change metadata Calibre saves that info in an .opf file in the book's Calibre folder. It does NOT automatically save that information into the book file itself. The content server reads the Calibre metadata file...not the book file. Marvin only displays the data provided by the content server - it would require downloading every book in the server for Marvin to access the data within the book... talk about a waste of time and bandwidth!

Once you download the book Marvin only has access to the metadata in the book file (epub) - NOT the .opf that Calibre created (or the XML generated from that file) because it is in the Calibre folder on your computer. Marvin does not have a constant connection to your computer... it can only rely on what's in the book file.

That is neither a Marvin bug - regardless of any other software you think may behave differently - nor is it a Calibre problem. It is simply how Calibre handles its internal library functions (for speed) and only updates the actual book file when you specifically tell it to.

Doc Nightshade mentioned one of the procedures to force Calibre to update the book file with the new metadata - using "Polish book"; another way is to "Save to Disk".

I use the "Save only Epub to Disk in a single directory" option in my setup. The updated epub gets saved to a hot folder on my Calibre OPDS server. Calibre automatically adds that file to its library and it is available on the OPDS within seconds. This different-instance-of-Calibre-on-a-different-machine setup allows me to add books to my OPDS server from my laptop anywhere around the globe, however using the "Polish book" option will work just fine for those with a more conventional library/server setup on a single machine.

In summary: after you update your metadata within Calibre simply commit that new data to the epub file using "Polish" or "Save to Disk". Then Marvin will import exactly the same thing that is displayed within Calibre.

Cheers,

Turtle91 · 01-01-2017, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedhax

For me, getting the bug fix from the app developer is a much better solution than hacking my calibre library reluctantly.

Just for clarification, the Polish Book function in Calibre is not a "hack" of the library...it is a normal function of Calibre (created by Kovid himself) and works very well. The Original.epub file is just a backup method Calibre uses. You can simply delete the original if you don't need it. The deletion and re-import of all your books is not strictly necessary unless you are just CDO (OCD in proper alphabetic order) about your library like I am.

As the directions state: "You should use this tool as the last step in your ebook creation process." (emphasis added)
Attached is a screenshot of the Polish book description:

cedhax · 01-01-2017, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedhax

I consider it as a bug of Marvin. It is not a calibre bug. Apparently Marvin does not understand the tag information as embedded in the OPDS XML generated by Calibre Content Server, and chooses to show the tags embedded in EPUB books instead. I think the metadata of an OPDS entry should override those embedded in the book itself.

Another popular ebook reader app, MapleRead (used to be called BookMaster), used to have a similar problem. It was fixed almost exactly one year ago in v1.2. See
http://www.maplepop.com/web/mr/new_features.php#v120

For me, getting the bug fix from the app developer is a much better solution than hacking my calibre library reluctantly.

I used the term "hacking" there loosely and playfully. Basically I don't want to do the extra work with Calibre in order to workaround that problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle91

You don't seem to understand how Calibre works. There are two different and distinct locations for a book's metadata: 1) inside the book file itself, and 2) within Calibre's library folder.
...

That is neither a Marvin bug - regardless of any other software you think may behave differently - nor is it a Calibre problem. ...

You seem to underestimate other's understanding of how Calibre works. But there is no harm in repeating the non-obvious to most users in this forum sometimes. As for the original issue itself, of course, that is not a calibre bug as I stated in the second sentence of my original message. However, that is indeed a bug (or missing feature if you want to put it more lightly) of Marvin, or similar type of software.

09-12-2016, 06:26 AM	#1
duskstar Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2013 Device: Kobo Glo	Subjects and Tags However I add books to Marvin 3.0, whether from Dropbox or via ODPS, it adds books with "subjects and tags" and I cannot tell where they're them pulling from. All of my tag fields on Calibre are empty, and whilst I have defined #customshelves, it's completely ignoring those. I find this really frustrating as I have a very large library and I tend to browse it by categories I have predefined and sorted. I could deal with it if it was just ignoring them completely (hopefully which will change when a calibre/Marvin plugin exists again), but where is it finding the stuff it's adding and is there a way I can stop it from doing so? It's really inconsistent and is driving me crazy!

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09-12-2016, 09:39 AM	#2
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 362 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	I have the same problem from time-to-time (also using Calibre). It would be really helpful if Marvin offered a quick way to delete all of a particular tag (not the book, just the tag).

09-12-2016, 09:49 AM	#3
JKenP Connoisseur Posts: 91 Karma: 504384 Join Date: May 2011 Location: NW Indiana Device: Sony Kobo iPhone Kindle 8 HD	Marvin is a reader. Calibre is a library manager. I think they both serve their intended purpose well. Screen-size alone makes Calibre the best choice for the library manager. In my case, Marvin on holds books I intend to read soon which makes it easy to work with. When I've read the book on Marvin, I remove it. I understand that some need more when working with reference material. But for simple reading, its easy to manage things via Marvin-Dropbox-Calibre.

09-12-2016, 06:17 PM	#4
duskstar Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2013 Device: Kobo Glo	@ JKenP The point isn't trying to make Marvin into a library manager - I specifically don't want it to do that, which is what happening when it's somehow adding its own tags. I want to be able to manage the library in Calibre (which I do) and have the things that help me read and enjoy my library on Marvin. In this case, having my books sorted into the predefined genres I have used on Calibre. I do not see the point of not having all my ebooks to hand on all my devices, because that's the joy of ebooks; you can always find what you want to read, which means that there are almost 4,000 books in my Marvin library, therefore having a way to browse through them more granularly is useful. I appreciate that your method works for you, but it doesn't really seem relevant to my question.

09-12-2016, 09:37 PM	#5
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	You can use a calibre Metadata Plugboard to clear the tags field when downloading from the Content Server (or sending to device, or both, or whatever). ... It is very true that ideally you will handle this all via calibre (the ebook source) itself.

09-13-2016, 02:05 PM	#7
JKenP Connoisseur Posts: 91 Karma: 504384 Join Date: May 2011 Location: NW Indiana Device: Sony Kobo iPhone Kindle 8 HD	The bulk metadata edit will remove all tags, if you don't use them. If you asked in Calibre, there might be a script you can insert to keep them from transferring out. That'd be in the write to disk for most of us. If that doesn't work, I can see why you'd want to ignore tags on a phone. Maybe Marvin could have an Ignore Tags checkbox.

09-14-2016, 10:13 AM	#8
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 362 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	But the weird thing is that the tags that show up in Calibre are correct but when the book gets to Marvin, additional tags are present. When I first load a book into Calibre, I clear all of the tags (I only want to use my own). Then I add those tags that are needed. But some books, when I send them to Marvin, seem to include the tags that I deleted in Calibre.

09-14-2016, 11:34 AM	#9
JKenP Connoisseur Posts: 91 Karma: 504384 Join Date: May 2011 Location: NW Indiana Device: Sony Kobo iPhone Kindle 8 HD	You're right. It is weird. I think sharing that message in the Calibre forum might see it resolved. Sounds like it might be a database error there.

09-15-2016, 06:19 AM	#10
duskstar Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2013 Device: Kobo Glo	I do exactly what @MSWallacl does. My tag fields in Calibre are all totally clear, because I do handle all of this in there, hence why I think it's a Marvin glitch, not a Calibre one. I don't understand where Marvin is pulling these mysterious subjects and tags from, as it is ignoring my "custom metadata" in Calibre which I have set up as custom genre shelves. In the original version of Marvin, whenever and however I pulled books from Calibre (either through the plug in, via dropbox or using ODPS) it took my custom metadata and created collections. This time it is ignoring that and creating its own. And let me stress again that I keep all other tag fields in Calibre totally clear.

12-31-2016, 08:20 PM	#11
Doc Nightshade Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2016 Device: iOS, Sony Prs T3	Hi-- I know this thread is a few months old, but I'm having the same problem: mysterious subjects Marvin adds to books that aren't in the tags field in Calibre, or anywhere easy to get at. I haven't seen a solution posted anywhere else, but I have found a thing that works for me. It might be a bit of a bodge, so if you want to try this, I *highly recommend* that you back up your library first! Okay, so where are those tags coming from: they are, as far as I can tell, embedded in the book itself, and that's whence Marvin is pulling them. These tags don't show up as tags in Calibre, so that's why you can't get rid of them in metadata edit. You can get rid of them, though: Calibre has a feature called 'Polish Books' which will, among other things, strip them out, leaving only the tags you have assigned in Tags. So, step by stem: First, get your own tags in your Calibre library to be how you want them. If you use tags you have probably already done this. Next, if you don't have the Polish Books button in your toolbar, go into preferences, toolbars, and enable it. It looks like a little broom. Go back into your regular view. Select a book or books to edit and push the button. You'll get a number of options with tick boxes beside them. The one you want is 'Update metadata in the book files'. Tick that box, and let it work its magic. Note that if you have selected many books and you have a large library, this could take some time. Calibre will create an ORIGINAL.EPUB file alongside your modified one (I imagine you can use this to restore the old metadata later, should you ever want to and you don't want to just download it from within metadata edit) but you can, if you need the space, safely delete it (or at least nothing awful happened when I deleted mine, but make sure you have your backup just in case). Delete the old books from Marvin's library and re-import them, and you should see collections only under your own assigned tags. This worked for me, anyway-- I hope someone finds it useful.

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