Sort by series

[alternety]

I am a very casual user. Not trying to be clever or complicated. I am frequently confused by the official documentation (mostly for lack of useful detail and assuming more for-knowledge that can be reasonably expected). Little things such as a simple way to find out what the little symbols that show up on the screen mean. Divergence from the expectations of windows users (I know - heresy, but there are a lot of us). Now after I have annoyed the forum members, there is an issue with the way calibre handles sorting by series. It is one of those things that just do not make sense to me. There is also some sort of strangeness (how about that for a precise statement a la calibre) when importing zip files from a directory. While importing zip file from a directory, I got messages about calibre using a zip file and not allowing me to move it. For no reason I can discern. After the import was finished. I closed calibre and reopened it and the problem went away. It also seems to require naming from a higher level directory to access a file. Not consistent with Windows file system. Rephrase; can not open a zip file in the left side of explorer. Must be on the right side. Not the way it is supposed to work.

If you click on the series column header to sort the series, it puts the results at the top of the display, but backward in the alphabet. If you click the header again, it puts the series in alphabetic order, but puts them at the bottom of the book list. That really seems to be the wrong way to handle this. Perhaps there is a hidden magic way to avoid this; but I have not been able to find it.

Is there a way?. If not, how does one submit an issue to the people maintaining the product? I have also not found that. But I am a simple user.

[kovidgoyal]

When you sort series in ascending order, items without a series sort before items with a series. When you sort them in descending order they sort after. Perfectly sensible, if you ask me. If you want to see a list with only series in it, click "Series" in the tag browser on the left and then sort however you want.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to zip files. If you mean that while calibre is importing a zip file, you cannot open it in other programs, that is thanks to Microsoft, since windows does not allow files to be opened in more than one program at a time. You dont like it, complain to Microsoft.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by alternety

If you click on the series column header to sort the series, it puts the results at the top of the display, but backward in the alphabet. If you click the header again, it puts the series in alphabetic order, but puts them at the bottom of the book list. That really seems to be the wrong way to handle this. Perhaps there is a hidden magic way to avoid this; but I have not been able to find it.

And after you click the header, if you look at the column header, you will see a little arrow on the end of the name. It will be pointing up or down. And when you click the header again, it will point in the other direction. That arrow indicates the order being used for that column. One way says ascending order, the other descending. And no arrow means the list is not sorted by that column. All that works exactly the same as any other well-written Windows application.

If not, how does one submit an issue to the people maintaining the product? I have also not found that. But I am a simple user.

Did you look at the calibre web site? The help section tells you how to get help. And if that doesn't work, the menu at the top has "Bugs" in it.

[alternety]

No - the little arrow does not work as in Windows. Nor provide a particularly (rationally) expected result. When you sort on a column, that becomes the sort order of the file. Pretty much everywhere I have been exposed to. The application does something different and not particularly useful.

No, calibre was not supposed to be doing anything with the file. It was retaining ownership when it had no business to be doing so. No discernible way to tell it not to. There is also some peculiarity in handling files. It will not recognize a file on the left hand side of explorer under a higher level folder. You must first select the higher level folder and then use the sub-folder names from the right hand side. Windows allows the opening of the files directly on the left side.

These responses pretty much follow my basic issue with using this application (which I find incredibly useful). It has to be me expecting something I see everywhere else. With no actual explanation or resolution. There really needs to be a manual created that does not use application specific jargon to explain how things work.

There has been an incredible amount of effort spent creating, maintaining, and expanding this application. So many answers to questions amount to: If you only understood things we do not tell you (i.e., can't find in the documentation), you would not have this problem. Defensive; not helpful. Over a couple of years, I find defensive (or you are just too lazy to learn) to be a very common response. It appears to me that the developer(s) approached this with the perspective of documents rather than usability by non "document" people. I may be quite incorrect, but this is the impression I have gained in trying to understand the application functions and terminology. It is not real supportive of people that just want to keep a library.

Meaningful documentation must not include having to go to a forum to understand basic operations. Please expend some of the volunteer effort to making understandable and detailed documentation.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by alternety

Meaningful documentation must not include having to go to a forum to understand basic operations. Please expend some of the volunteer effort to making understandable and detailed documentation.

My initial response was:

I think you have a basic misconception of calibre's basic architecture - at its core it has a database (metadata.db in the library folder), the presence of the author and book title folders is merely a convenient place to store format files (.EPUB, .PDF, .TXT etc), the book cover images (cover.jpg) and database backup files (metadata.opf).

When you sort on a column in calibre you are not sorting files, you are sorting a column in an in-memory database that derives from an SQLite database (metadata.db), similar to sorting a spreadsheet by a column in Excel , or sorting a Table by a column in Word.

The browser tree on the left is not a file system tree, it is a tree of database columns.

But when I look back at your previous posts, I think you must already know most of this, in one of them you claimed there was no metadata.db file, and then there was.

BTW - telling volunteers how they ought spend their time is unlikely to elicit a friendly response from them.

Originally Posted by intentional sarcasm

And regarding application jargon in the User manual, calibre is in good company, this is a link to the Word 2013 Quickstart Guide

Quick Access Toolbar ? Maybe it's something to do with the MS Access database application. Ribbon Tabs ? Good idea I need to keep tabs on which drawer I keep my typewriter ribbons, Dialog Box Launchers? It talks too?

I suggest you watch these videos to get a handle on calibre and its usage ==>> Video Tutorials

BR

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by alternety

No - the little arrow does not work as in Windows. Nor provide a particularly (rationally) expected result. When you sort on a column, that becomes the sort order of the file. Pretty much everywhere I have been exposed to. The application does something different and not particularly useful.

In that case, we must have gotten our Windows from different places. In explorer, if I click the column headings, the list is sorted by that column. And there is an arrow placed in the column header to indicate a direction. Explorer puts it in the middle of the column heading, Outlook puts it immediately after the column name. But, explorer does have two arrows. One is to indicate the sort direction, and the other drops down some options.

But, OK, maybe my statement should have been: Just like any well written Windows application that displays columns of data that can be sorted by clicking the column heading

No, calibre was not supposed to be doing anything with the file. It was retaining ownership when it had no business to be doing so. No discernible way to tell it not to.

As Kovid mentioned, while the file is being added to calibre, calibre opens it. If you tried to do something with the file while that was happening, then Windows would stop you because another application had the file open. And it sounds like either you didn't wait long enough to try again, or you touching the file while calibre had it opened caused something else to go wrong so that Windows didn't think calibre had released it.

There is also some peculiarity in handling files. It will not recognize a file on the left hand side of explorer under a higher level folder. You must first select the higher level folder and then use the sub-folder names from the right hand side. Windows allows the opening of the files directly on the left side.

What were you doing in calibre when you saw this? Adding a book using the file chooser? If so, from memory, calibre can use the native Windows file dialog, or another one. I know I see the Windows one and that works the same as any other file dialog. To get the other file dialog, you have to change an option somewhere. Have you been fiddling with the preferences?

These responses pretty much follow my basic issue with using this application (which I find incredibly useful). It has to be me expecting something I see everywhere else. With no actual explanation or resolution. There really needs to be a manual created that does not use application specific jargon to explain how things work.

There has been an incredible amount of effort spent creating, maintaining, and expanding this application. So many answers to questions amount to: If you only understood things we do not tell you (i.e., can't find in the documentation), you would not have this problem. Defensive; not helpful. Over a couple of years, I find defensive (or you are just too lazy to learn) to be a very common response. It appears to me that the developer(s) approached this with the perspective of documents rather than usability by non "document" people. I may be quite incorrect, but this is the impression I have gained in trying to understand the application functions and terminology. It is not real supportive of people that just want to keep a library.

Meaningful documentation must not include having to go to a forum to understand basic operations. Please expend some of the volunteer effort to making understandable and detailed documentation.

I think the only response I can make to this is: Thank you for volunteering to rewrite the documentation.

That is what you are doing, isn't it? I mean, if the current developers/writers can't get it write, then someone with fresh eyes really needs to come in and do it. That way they can get it right so that any new comers to understand. And as you obviously understand what is wrong with it, then you would be a great person to do this. So, thank you.

[theducks]

My Calibre GUI sorts columns just like:

Windows 3.x, 9x, 2000, XP, W7 and W10 and Ubuntu (Gnome), Mint

Calibre has its own Locale setting that is separate from the system Locale (defaults to system upon initial install). THAT affects sort RULES

BTW do you know the difference between Library Order and Strictly Alphabetical?

Calibre is a Library Manager.
Guess what rule is the default !

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by alternety

I am a very casual user. Not trying to be clever or complicated. I am frequently confused by the official documentation (mostly for lack of useful detail and assuming more for-knowledge that can be reasonably expected). Little things such as a simple way to find out what the little symbols that show up on the screen mean. Divergence from the expectations of windows users (I know - heresy, but there are a lot of us). Now after I have annoyed the forum members, there is an issue with the way calibre handles sorting by series.

[...]

Is there a way?. If not, how does one submit an issue to the people maintaining the product? I have also not found that. But I am a simple user.

I count six counts of passive-aggressive behavior.
And as others have explained, not one of your complaints are actual issues.

Congratulations -- you have indeed annoyed the forum members.

Originally Posted by alternety

These responses pretty much follow my basic issue with using this application (which I find incredibly useful). It has to be me expecting something I see everywhere else. With no actual explanation or resolution. There really needs to be a manual created that does not use application specific jargon to explain how things work.

There has been an incredible amount of effort spent creating, maintaining, and expanding this application. So many answers to questions amount to: If you only understood things we do not tell you (i.e., can't find in the documentation), you would not have this problem. Defensive; not helpful. Over a couple of years, I find defensive (or you are just too lazy to learn) to be a very common response. It appears to me that the developer(s) approached this with the perspective of documents rather than usability by non "document" people. I may be quite incorrect, but this is the impression I have gained in trying to understand the application functions and terminology. It is not real supportive of people that just want to keep a library.

Meaningful documentation must not include having to go to a forum to understand basic operations. Please expend some of the volunteer effort to making understandable and detailed documentation.

calibre has over three million currently active users (official usage stats). Most of those people have never visited this forum -- presumably they found the documentation sufficient to enable them to use calibre effectively.

From experience, most of the basic operations help offered here is handholding which could easily be avoided by people who either read the manual (yes, the information is there, if nothing else this is why FAQs exist) or looked at the tooltips in the calibre GUI. Of course, we are generally okay with answering those questions anyway.
This does not count the majority of questions about when Things Go Wrong And Errors Appear.


If you really think the documentation is flawed, then as davidfor said, feel free to volunteer and fix it.
Otherwise, stop complaining, because you clearly are unusual even amongst average users in thinking that there is a problem.

...

With attitudes like yours, no wonder we are "defensive". I would actually use stronger words, if I wasn't afraid of incurring moderator wrath for rudeness (NOTE: this is a family-friendly forum).
This thread is an excellent example of why hapless users get a (usually undeserved) bad name. I don't think either of us is happy about that so I strongly recommend you revise your expectations about Microsoft, Windows, calibre, the File Explorer, basic and universal UI design, and possibly your obligation as a user to Ask Questions The Smart Way.

[alternety]

I do apologies for my statements. More thorough reading of the documentation helped appreciably.