First e-reader choice from a picky engineer

[cement]

Hi everyone,

Choosing between Kindle and Kobo seems to be a pretty difficult choice. I'm looking to use an ereader for two purposes - reading books (sometimes or rarely PDFs) and also reading news.

For reading books, Kindle has the new typesetting engine and bookerly font, but it sounds like the new typesetting engine only benefits me if the book is delivered in the new KFX font. Ligatures are cool, but the more important thing is hyphenation support. I'm someone who values the quality of the output of a device.

On the Kobos, it sounds like the advantage here is a lot of typesetting features are better to begin with with ePubs. Hyphenation, ligatures, font choice, etc. And if I don't like the formatting I can reformat spacing and margins with Calibre (perhaps I can do this as well for Kindle books on the Kindle?). Then, there's also Koreader that I can install (improves PDF support). Can this be installed on the Voyage these days also?

On the news front, it's pretty cool that the Kindles allow you to subscribe to things like the New York Times, etc. But maybe not things like The Economist?

That's all cool for subscriptions, but honestly on the Kobo if Pocket support works as well as I can imagine, then I can visit NYT or Economist articles in a Chrome incognito window and just save them to Pocket. Then I don't really need actual subscriptions on the ereader. At least you have the syncing ability of Pocket, but no real browsing on the Kobo (let's ignore the web browser on the Kobo...). And of course, all the other things from my Pocket list will just be there. That seems huge.

Send to Kindle is cool sounding, and it sounds like Instapaper has support for this as well. Any comments on different experiences between the two devices in this regard? Clearly, you'll only get syncing support in any form on the Kobos.

The last major thing on my mind is the whiteness of the screen when un-illuminated, as well as the color temperature of the frontlight when turned on. I feel like if the one screen is noticeably whiter than the other (Kobo vs Kindle) then I'll have the feeling that one is nicer. If Kindles are darker simply so that they can have capacitive screens, that seems like a poor compromise. This is my first ereader - I've watched the technology for a long time, but the early ereaders had rather dark screens. So it seems partly silly to not get the one with the whiter screen. If ... tequila...

In various YouTube videos, it looks like the Kobo devices are whiter than the Kindle devices when the frontlight is completely off. Would you agree with this? Is it as noticeable in person as I'm seeing in videos? And is there any difference in (un-illuminated) screen whiteness between the Kobo Glo HD and the Aura H2O? GoodEReader said the Glo HD had a capacitive screen while the Aura H2O had an IR screen. I could imagine the capacitive screen could make it appear less white (I think this is the case with the Paperwhite and Voyage). But at the same time, the GoodEReader guys don't quite seem to understand that PPI and screen resolution + screen dimensions are all linked quantities - I get the impression that they think PPI can vary independently from resolution and screen dimensions :/ (It's one equation... ugh...). So I tend to take what they say with a grain of salt. Is the Aura H2O screen really capacitive? I'm a bit skeptical. The larger screen could be interesting for PDFs.

As for front lights, I would tend to go with something as white as possible, but preferably probably slightly on the warmer side than cooler side. Too cool color temperature and it will start to feel like a computer screen rather than an illuminated book. I've compared Voyages to Paperwhites in Best Buy and some Voyages are very blue - to the point that I couldn't bring myself to buy one. Others are very red compared to Paperwhites. So I don't know what to think. I'm in the U.S., so there's no way for me to see a Kobo in person. Very sad. I feel like Kindles are the only ereader Americans can see in person these days. Quite a shame. Well, let's ignore Nooks :/

DRM:

Looks like KFX has not been cracked, but I'll still get AZW3 via Kindle Desktop? If I get a Kobo, I'll likely still be buying some books from Amazon, and I need to know that I won't be trapped by DRM. And from all impressions, it sounds like converting Kobos works just as easily these days with Calibre? Any up to date news that I should be aware of on this front? I've done an absolute ton of research, but it would be great to here from current users whether something has changed.

As for Calibre usage, I certainly don't mind converting books there first before sending to my ereader. I've used it a tiny bit already, but of course I don't want to spend a lifetime converting tricky books that don't want to play nicely. From my short experience with it, seems like I shouldn't have much to worry about?

The Aura H2O seems to collect fingerprints on the front while the Glo HD just on the back (OK). The back of the Glo HD seems really nice actually compared to the Aura H2O's hard (er?) plastic. Both Kindle devices have a very pleasant feel in person.

The Voyage is so sleek and professional, while the Kobos seem so powerful in comparison. And the homescreen makes you feel like it's personal and you own the device, whereas the Kindle homescreen feels like the Amazon storefront homepage... Kindles look like they're faster than Kobos... maybe more durable... how is an engineer supposed to handle deciding between the two?!

Please let me know if you have any feedback on my ramblings and research!

[meeera]

The first thing you need to know is to take anything you read or hear on Goodereader with a pinch of salt. The Glo HD has IR touch. The only capacitive touch Kobo eink reader is the Aura. You also can't tell much about comparative screen colour or lighting (or anything else, really) in GeR reviews, because they make little or no effort to keep settings the same when comparing devices.

When it comes to colour temperature, if you are sensitive to this, there is significant variation between individual devices. There have also been a few more reports of colour gradations within a given screen in the Kindles, though a whole lot of people don't experience or can't perceive this at all. I would recommend seeing your individual device before buying if at all possible, though as you say that is difficult for you with Kobo. (Where in the USA? Maybe you have a nearby Mobileread member, or one of the very few bookshops with stock?) I find my H2O to be pleasantly neutral-to-warm, but mileage may vary.

Background whiteness/contrast depends more on whether you have a Carta eink device than on which brand it is. Perceived contrast improves with a black bezel rather than white, and with bolder fonts (there's more control on the Kobo for that, as you know).

When it comes to news reading - to be honest, I use my iPad Mini and Flipboard, because I much prefer that experience. Pocket I use (and love) for short stories.

If fingerprints are a big issue for you, there are decal skins.

I know nothing about how the backs of my devices feel, because I always use (and strongly recommend) a case.

Possibly the killer features of Kobo for me are the font/layout management and Calibre collections management. The waterproofing is great too, and it's also a platform compatible with library borrowing in my country (yours has Kindle borrowing). And I agree with you on the home screen side of things.

I've had little to no trouble with DRM and conversion, so long as I stay away from iBooks and B&N. There was a brief period where Kobo was annoyingly selling a few kepub-only books (I prefer the epub renderer), but obok took care of that.

[Cinisajoy]

My advice would be to look at both stores. Know that if you get a Kobo but want to shop at Amazon, you will have to convert the books.

If you buy a kindle, the format the book comes in, depends on which device you own.
There is no Kindle Desktop.
There is a Kindle for PC app.
If you use that or the transfer via PC button, your kindle books are stored in a documents folder.
Otherwise, your books are stored in the cloud at Manage your Content and devices.

I personally just own the basic kindle with no lights.
I also own a Kobo.
I can't really tell much difference in the two. Except that I don't like the Kobo store.

Good luck.

[JSWolf]

The first question is where do you live?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The first question is where do you live?

It's buried deeply in the long first post - the USA.

[cement]

Thanks for your replies. Yes, I'm in the U.S. (Los Angeles), so testing a Kobo first hand is difficult.

IR touch:
Do you think there's much difference between the IR touch and capacitive touch experience?

Screen front light:
You mentioned it's hard to judge front light differences with GeR reviews. Between independent review videos, yes. But in their head to head comparison videos - or anyone else's, for that matter - it does seem clear to me that there's a difference, with the Kobos being a bit whiter. I would guess this has to do with a capacitive layer on Kindles. I think others have made this guess as well. I place significant value on a whiter screen.

But as you say, yes, they vary quite a bit from unit to unit.

The fingerprint thing is one of the smaller factors, for sure. The paperwhite has the most matte-quality rubberized plastic between the Kindles (only in person tests I can do).

Yes, it seems to me the most important things that I value would be the whiteness of the screen itself, as well as typography control. All of this seems great on the Kobos, with a couple of exceptions: I would want to remove all extraneous spacing between paragraphs that you see on some books on Kobos; and I would want to remove the header and footer that Kobo displays. The header is really OK, but from some videos I've seen, the footer management sometimes results in gigantic whitespace regions at the bottom of the page. It seems like a huge waste of space. There was one video I watched where someone commented that they disliked this also, but that they had found something where they could place a special file on their Kobo and that file made a new configuration (check box) option appear in the settings that allowed you to disable this stuff. Do you know what he's talking about and where to find that? Like I said, the header with the title isn't so bad, but the footer - at least in the worst case - is rather disconcerting.

Aside from those last two points, I'm OK with using Calibre to remove paragraph spacing and stuff. I plan to manage my books there anyway.

Good to here that I probably won't encounter many issues with DRM. As long as I have the flexibility to get books from sources other than Kobo on the Kobo, I'm not concerned.

Library borrowing:
Yes, Kindle works for that here. But from my research, apparently Kobo does as well. Overdrive shows that my local library has ePubs, too.

Thanks for the tip of staying away from B&N books. As for iBooks - I already stay away from Apple completely

Oh, and yes I actually called up a store around here that was listed on Kobo's site as one of the "indie" bookstores that carried Kobos. Nope, no Kobos to be found.

So it kind of seems to me if I have no concerns getting other books onto a Kobo (e.g. Amazon books, when required), if I can remove the header and footer (or at minimum, just the footer), then Kobo might be the way to go. Because it wins for me in typography, screen whiteness (well, I *think* - so it seems), openness, and Pocket. Pocket support is really one of the big pulls for me.

I'd be sacrificing mostly Xray and newspaper and magazine (Economist - basically a text-centric magazine) functionality for this. I don't know for sure how much of the newspaper/magazine subscription I'd end up doing. I could find it's awesome, or I might not go for it much. On the flip side, I'll definitely use Pocket. As for Xray, this is really cool and nice to have, but only for certain types of books would it be extremely handy. Game of Thrones is a perfect example - I'm only on book one (and not sure how much of a fan I am yet). For other types of books, this is really cool, but probably not required. Oh, and well, yes also sacrificing a better store. It's kind of cool that you see all the reviews there for Amazon. But a better store comes at the expense of your device looking like a store. So I'm prepared to toss that point away. I can research online on a separate device or in a bricks and mortar store, I guess. Always nice to browse and stroll around. And, if I'm going Kobo, I'll be managing in Calibre - which is on my computer anyway.

Hmm. I think I'm definitely trying to convince myself of Kobo (without having ever touched one), but it's mostly the typography/layout unknowns and extra research that hasn't gotten me there yet.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by cement

Yes, it seems to me the most important things that I value would be the whiteness of the screen itself, as well as typography control. All of this seems great on the Kobos, with a couple of exceptions: I would want to remove all extraneous spacing between paragraphs that you see on some books on Kobos; and I would want to remove the header and footer that Kobo displays. The header is really OK, but from some videos I've seen, the footer management sometimes results in gigantic whitespace regions at the bottom of the page. It seems like a huge waste of space. There was one video I watched where someone commented that they disliked this also, but that they had found something where they could place a special file on their Kobo and that file made a new configuration (check box) option appear in the settings that allowed you to disable this stuff. Do you know what he's talking about and where to find that? Like I said, the header with the title isn't so bad, but the footer - at least in the worst case - is rather disconcerting.

Yep, this is all doable. Look into full-screen patches in the Kobo and Kobo Developer's forum here. And extraneous paragraph spacing easily fixed with Calibre.

[cement]

And yes, that's right, Kindle for PC, not Desktop. I just hadn't looked it up. I've got it installed in my Windows VM. I've downloaded Amazon books that way. It works of course, but it's pretty clunky. Oh well.

[cement]

Originally Posted by meeera

Yep, this is all doable. Look into full-screen patches in the Kobo and Kobo Developer's forum here. And extraneous paragraph spacing easily fixed with Calibre.

Awesome. That helps a lot. Every time I went back and forth typography-wise between Kindle and Kobo, I kept arriving at that sticking issue of the header and footer. Good to know this still works.

From my impressions, it sounds like various alterations - like this one to the stock Kobo software, or by adding Koreader, for example - are easier on Kobos than on Kindles? I'm not even sure whether you can install anything else easily on Voyages.

I was reading that installing Koreader, for example, was very easy - just a matter of moving files over USB (I'd see the filesystem on my computer). But before using Koreader, I'd need KSM (Kobo Start Menu?) I think? Is this just as easy or is it more involved?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by cement

Awesome. That helps a lot. Every time I went back and forth typography-wise between Kindle and Kobo, I kept arriving at that sticking issue of the header and footer. Good to know this still works.

From my impressions, it sounds like various alterations - like this one to the stock Kobo software, or by adding Koreader, for example - are easier on Kobos than on Kindles? I'm not even sure whether you can install anything else easily on Voyages.

I was reading that installing Koreader, for example, was very easy - just a matter of moving files over USB (I'd see the filesystem on my computer). But before using Koreader, I'd need KSM (Kobo Start Menu?) I think? Is this just as easy or is it more involved?

As far as I know, yes, but I suggest asking all this in the specialised threads/forums. You'll get much better answers from much more experienced people.

[JSWolf]

Since typesetting is important, go with a Kobo as typesetting works out of the box with ePub no problem.You get kerning & ligatures if the font used supports them, you also get hyphenation and you get a much wider range of font sizes available.

[Cinisajoy]

Oh and to change from Amazon books to Kobo books, it is more than just removing headers and footers. You will have to convert from one format to another.

I will agree for reading the kindle for pc is clunky.
Now for photo heavy books and cookbooks, it is great.
Note, I read one book "Letters from Alcatraz" on a Fire when inside, kindle touch outside and for the pictures kindle for PC.

[soulfuldog]

What models of Kobo & Kindle are you comparing? If it's the Glo HD v the Paperwhite, then the Glo tends to have a bluer tinge to the light than the Paperwhite (though see meeera's comments about variations between units never mind variations between models!), that apart I don't really think there is any difference in 'whiteness' between the two. The top range Aura H2O v the Voyage are both the best looking screens, with the H2O ovbviously being that little bit bigger.

The difference between the capacitive and IR touch screen is that the former gives you more control than IR touch, I personally find capacitive to be more responsive, but unless you do lots of selecting text, it's not something that you would probably even notice. There is a question of the capacitive layer distracting from the clarity of the text slightly, I'm not sure if there is a difference in this between the Paperwhite & Glo HD, not that I can see from videos but I have never seen the two side by side with my own eyes. Certainly it's not an issue with the Voyage, the text on it is certainly sharper looking than the Paperwhite and only matched by the Aura H2O.

If you like fiddling with your ereaders to get it looking a particular way, then go for the Kobo. Straight out the box the Kindle is just fine for most, but there are more options to get the Kobo to look how you want it. And with typography control being of interest to you, certainly try a Kobo first.

[ElektroDragon]

I switched from Kindle Voyage to Kobo Glo HD after my second Voyage broke on me and Amazon wouldn't honor the warranty even though my first replacement was less than a year old and I was just over a year since the original purchase. The first Voyage was always resetting itself, the second's screen broke for no reason. Anyway, I like the Glo HD far better. Some points of comparison to help you and others decide:

1) Yes, the Glo HD looks much whiter than the Voyage with the backlight off.

2) I find the IR touchscreen much more sensitive and responsive than capacitive. My wife has naturally sticky/oily fingers and has huge trouble with capacitive ereaders. No trouble with the Kobo.

3) Many many more font and typesetting options than Kindle.

4) Ability to easily "hack" it to add an inverse color "night mode".

5) Huge flexibility compared to Kindle. Not all library eBooks are available for Kindle, but all are for ePub. And it can read MOBI too so you won't even need to convert many of your old Kindle books. Super easy sideloading of content. (Calibre is amazing!) All my converted Kindle books look fantastic.

6) Expandable memory (yes, even if you have the non-SD card slot Glo HD!)

7) When you actually buy some books rather than use the Library, you get a permanent 5% discount at Kobo if you go through eBates.com. Does not exist for Amazon.com or BN.com ebooks.

8) Easy to adjust the light with a gesture rather than dig in menu. I don't find it to be blue. It's not yellow either. It's just "neutral white". I looked at the latest Nook and it was super blue which was a deal killer. Excellent screen uniformity, no splotches.

9) There are missing features compared to the Voyage, but I never really used them! Side buttons? I tended to use the touchscreen. X-Ray? Only worked for certain books and when it did the information was minimal or useless. Goodreads? Never used.

I have finally broken out of the Amazon ecosystem and it feels incredibly liberating!

[JSWolf]

The problem is that Amazon's warranty on your replacement Kindle was only good for as long as the remainder of the original warranty.