Literary The Untouchable by John Banville

sun surfer · 12-05-2015, 07:43 AM

This is the MR Literary Club selection for December 2015. Whether you've already read it or would like to, feel free to start or join in the conversation at any time! Guests are also always welcome.

Goodreads • Amazon Canada India UK US • Kobo • Dymocks Australia Pbook

So, what are your thoughts on it?

Bookpossum · 12-07-2015, 10:09 PM

Just got home this morning and have ordered the book through AbeBooks, as Kobo wasn't offering it and my library doesn't have it. Pretty pathetic when he's a Man Booker prizewinner!

Anyway, the book is ordered but it looks as if I won't get it until early in the New Year. This seems to be happening to a number of us, which makes discussing the book pretty hard. Is it worth considering doing the voting a month ahead of time, i.e. select January's book early in December, to allow for these time lags? The same is true whether we are looking to purchase a book or get it through an inter-library loan.

Just a thought, but maybe impractical. Put it down to the fact I only got about three hours' sleep last night!

bfisher · 12-07-2015, 10:54 PM

My apologies, Bookpossum. I had checked amazon.ca and Kobo Canada. It was available at both (not always the case for either), so I assumed that it would be widely available (I loathe geographic restrictions). I agree with you; I often find it difficult to get a book in time for the book club, so having an extra month's lead time would be a Godsend.

issybird · 12-08-2015, 12:04 AM

I'm surprised that Kobo Aus doesn't have this! Usually we're the ones left out with this type of book, but even OverDrive offers it here.

fantasyfan · 12-08-2015, 04:04 AM

The book is available over here and isn't too expensive. I'm reading a library copy at the moment so as to determine whether or not I should actually purchase it. So far, I'm impressed with Banville's command of prose. But he doesn't seem to create much of a plot and I find it slow going as I wade through some sections. Perhaps it helps to have an interest in the actual events on which he is basing the story to be intrigued with this book and the characters in it.

I think I'll wait a bit until others get the book before I discuss it further.

bfisher · 12-08-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasyfan

So far, I'm impressed with Banville's command of prose. But he doesn't seem to create much of a plot and I find it slow going as I wade through some sections. Perhaps it helps to have an interest in the actual events on which he is basing the story to be intrigued with this book and the characters in it.

I think I'll wait a bit until others get the book before I discuss it further.

Everything I've read about Banville's writing is that it's all about adjectives and adverbs.

That fits what I've read so far.

It's supposed to be based roughly on Anthony Blunt and the Cambridge Five, so probably no surprises coming in terms of where the plot is heading.

Bookpossum · 12-08-2015, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfisher

My apologies, Bookpossum. I had checked amazon.ca and Kobo Canada. It was available at both (not always the case for either), so I assumed that it would be widely available (I loathe geographic restrictions). I agree with you; I often find it difficult to get a book in time for the book club, so having an extra month's lead time would be a Godsend.

No need to apologise bfisher! I'm just amazed I can't get hold of it more quickly and easily.

Bookworm_Girl · 12-13-2015, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfisher

Everything I've read about Banville's writing is that it's all about adjectives and adverbs.

That fits what I've read so far.

It's supposed to be based roughly on Anthony Blunt and the Cambridge Five, so probably no surprises coming in terms of where the plot is heading.

I'm 25% complete and enjoying it so far. It is a little slow-going as fantasyfan says. Maybe because of the introspective journaling narration. I was expecting a more plot-based linear narrative. Banville has been on my TBR list for awhile. Yes, lots of adjectives! I wondered if the prose was typical of Banville's writing or if it was in-character for the art critic.

I don't know much about the historical basis. I bought Cambridge Spies, a 2003 BBC dramatization. The DVD special features include a 45 minute documentary "Great Spy Stories of the Twentieth Century: The Cambridge Spies" as well as "A Cambridge Spies Historical Scrapbook" (a collection of rare interviews, news clips and other footage featuring the real Cambridge Spies). I don't plan to watch the videos until after I finish the book.

HomeInMyShoes · 12-14-2015, 10:02 AM

I've got it requested from the library, but I'm going to wait until 2016 to read it as it will fit in nicely into my BINGO challenges. I'll join the discussion then.

fantasyfan · 12-16-2015, 08:44 AM

I noticed that Banville desires his prose to have the density of poetry. This is probably why I find problems with reading this novel. In addition, interesting and skilful as Banville is, I don't get any enjoyment from convoluted descriptions of quite unpleasant characters. Naturally this is not a negative criticism of Banville as an artist; rather it is a matter of personal taste. I think I'll wait to proceed with this novel later. In fact, I might first try one of his earlier books--probably Doctor Copernicus which has been recommended to me as being more accessible.

caleb72 · 12-24-2015, 05:49 AM

I finished this yesterday.
I ended up buying it because actually loaning the book looked like it was going to be a bit of a hassle.

The first third of the book I really struggled to get into. The writing was nice, but everything else was a bit tedious. However, as the novel progressed, I grew into it.

I ended up enjoying the link between the Poussin painting and the main character. It was as if that painting was a prophecy of sorts. It might be interesting to note, that I don't think Poussin ever painted something called "The Death of Seneca". A painting of the same name was painted by Jacques-Louis David in 1773.

Here's a link to the painting I found for any that are interested:
http://www.wikiart.org/en/jacques-lo...of-seneca-1773

Bookworm_Girl · 12-24-2015, 12:06 PM

Thanks, caleb72! I finished the book yesterday too. Overall I liked it. I need to review the passages I highlighted and think about this one. Now I can watch my DVDs too and do some historical research.

bfisher · 12-30-2015, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caleb72

I finished this yesterday.
I ended up buying it because actually loaning the book looked like it was going to be a bit of a hassle.

The first third of the book I really struggled to get into. The writing was nice, but everything else was a bit tedious. However, as the novel progressed, I grew into it.

I ended up enjoying the link between the Poussin painting and the main character. It was as if that painting was a prophecy of sorts.

That was a great insight about the link between the character and the painting, and the character's ending.

I also enjoyed the many references to Poussin. There's a great early reference which is very revealing of the protagonist:
"There is a particular bit of blue sky in Et in Arcadia Ego, where the clouds are broken in the shape of a bird in swift flight, which is the true, clandestine centre-point, the pinnacle of the picture, for me."

bfisher · 12-30-2015, 07:46 PM

Was Banville making a joke here:
"Did Odysseus’s men look like this as they sat down on the sand to their haunches of roast bullock and goblets of sea-dark wine?"

Bookworm_Girl · 01-03-2016, 04:02 PM

Based on the research I've done it seems Banville did a good job of capturing Anthony Blunt's personality that aided him in his espionage and allowed him to remain undetected: his coldness, his gentlemanly Britishness, his loyalty to his friends. I wonder if Banville chose Blunt to portray because he was such an enigma which made it interesting to pursue the study of him and what his motivations may or may not have been. Lots of layers to his personality and secret lives. The book does a great job on continuing the character's habit of dissembling even in the writing of his memoirs while facing death by illness - certainly an unreliable narrator.

I found this article written about Blunt on the eve of the release of his real memoirs in 2009. It was interesting to compare the known facts of his lives with characters and events from the book. I also found a webpage on BBC dedicated to the Cambridge Spy ring.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ck-Royals.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwa...spies_01.shtml

12-05-2015, 07:43 AM	#1
sun surfer languorous autodidact ✦ Posts: 4,235 Karma: 44667380 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: smiling with the rising sun Device: onyx boox poke 2 colour, kindle voyage	The Untouchable by John Banville This is the MR Literary Club selection for December 2015. Whether you've already read it or would like to, feel free to start or join in the conversation at any time! Guests are also always welcome. Goodreads • Amazon Canada India UK US • Kobo • Dymocks Australia Pbook So, what are your thoughts on it?

12-16-2015, 08:44 AM	#10
fantasyfan Wizard Posts: 1,376 Karma: 28116892 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Device: Kindle Oasis 3, iPad 9th gen. IPhone 11	I noticed that Banville desires his prose to have the density of poetry. This is probably why I find problems with reading this novel. In addition, interesting and skilful as Banville is, I don't get any enjoyment from convoluted descriptions of quite unpleasant characters. Naturally this is not a negative criticism of Banville as an artist; rather it is a matter of personal taste. I think I'll wait to proceed with this novel later. In fact, I might first try one of his earlier books--probably Doctor Copernicus which has been recommended to me as being more accessible. Last edited by fantasyfan; 12-18-2015 at 08:22 AM.

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12-07-2015, 10:09 PM	#2
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,146 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	Just got home this morning and have ordered the book through AbeBooks, as Kobo wasn't offering it and my library doesn't have it. Pretty pathetic when he's a Man Booker prizewinner! Anyway, the book is ordered but it looks as if I won't get it until early in the New Year. This seems to be happening to a number of us, which makes discussing the book pretty hard. Is it worth considering doing the voting a month ahead of time, i.e. select January's book early in December, to allow for these time lags? The same is true whether we are looking to purchase a book or get it through an inter-library loan. Just a thought, but maybe impractical. Put it down to the fact I only got about three hours' sleep last night!

12-07-2015, 10:54 PM	#3
bfisher Wizard Posts: 1,638 Karma: 28483498 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ottawa Canada Device: Sony PRS-T3, Galaxy (Aldiko, Kobo app)	My apologies, Bookpossum. I had checked amazon.ca and Kobo Canada. It was available at both (not always the case for either), so I assumed that it would be widely available (I loathe geographic restrictions). I agree with you; I often find it difficult to get a book in time for the book club, so having an extra month's lead time would be a Godsend.

12-08-2015, 12:04 AM	#4
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 21,330 Karma: 234636059 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: Mini, H2O, Glo HD, Aura One, PW4, PW5	I'm surprised that Kobo Aus doesn't have this! Usually we're the ones left out with this type of book, but even OverDrive offers it here.

12-08-2015, 04:04 AM	#5
fantasyfan Wizard Posts: 1,376 Karma: 28116892 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Device: Kindle Oasis 3, iPad 9th gen. IPhone 11	The book is available over here and isn't too expensive. I'm reading a library copy at the moment so as to determine whether or not I should actually purchase it. So far, I'm impressed with Banville's command of prose. But he doesn't seem to create much of a plot and I find it slow going as I wade through some sections. Perhaps it helps to have an interest in the actual events on which he is basing the story to be intrigued with this book and the characters in it. I think I'll wait a bit until others get the book before I discuss it further.

12-14-2015, 10:02 AM	#9
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	I've got it requested from the library, but I'm going to wait until 2016 to read it as it will fit in nicely into my BINGO challenges. I'll join the discussion then.

12-24-2015, 05:49 AM	#11
caleb72 Indie Advocate Posts: 2,863 Karma: 18794463 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: Kindle	I finished this yesterday. I ended up buying it because actually loaning the book looked like it was going to be a bit of a hassle. The first third of the book I really struggled to get into. The writing was nice, but everything else was a bit tedious. However, as the novel progressed, I grew into it. I ended up enjoying the link between the Poussin painting and the main character. It was as if that painting was a prophecy of sorts. It might be interesting to note, that I don't think Poussin ever painted something called "The Death of Seneca". A painting of the same name was painted by Jacques-Louis David in 1773. Here's a link to the painting I found for any that are interested: http://www.wikiart.org/en/jacques-lo...of-seneca-1773

12-24-2015, 12:06 PM	#12
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,873 Karma: 36536965 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	Thanks, caleb72! I finished the book yesterday too. Overall I liked it. I need to review the passages I highlighted and think about this one. Now I can watch my DVDs too and do some historical research.

12-30-2015, 07:46 PM	#14
bfisher Wizard Posts: 1,638 Karma: 28483498 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ottawa Canada Device: Sony PRS-T3, Galaxy (Aldiko, Kobo app)	Was Banville making a joke here: "Did Odysseus’s men look like this as they sat down on the sand to their haunches of roast bullock and goblets of *sea-dark wine*?"

01-03-2016, 04:02 PM	#15
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,873 Karma: 36536965 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	Based on the research I've done it seems Banville did a good job of capturing Anthony Blunt's personality that aided him in his espionage and allowed him to remain undetected: his coldness, his gentlemanly Britishness, his loyalty to his friends. I wonder if Banville chose Blunt to portray because he was such an enigma which made it interesting to pursue the study of him and what his motivations may or may not have been. Lots of layers to his personality and secret lives. The book does a great job on continuing the character's habit of dissembling even in the writing of his memoirs while facing death by illness - certainly an unreliable narrator. I found this article written about Blunt on the eve of the release of his real memoirs in 2009. It was interesting to compare the known facts of his lives with characters and events from the book. I also found a webpage on BBC dedicated to the Cambridge Spy ring. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ck-Royals.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwa...spies_01.shtml

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