epub to mobi then send to kindle document service fail

cybmole · 03-23-2015, 11:53 AM

not sure if this it calibre or amazon issue:
My daughter ahs a new kindle & is goin into hospital so we are trying to get the email a book trick to work. she has set me up as an allowed sebder & I hve slected a drm free epub my my calibre library, converted to to mobi and meiled it to jer kindle address. I get an error back from amazon with a long list of reasons why its might have failed, none of which apply so I am stuck on how to debug.
I get this back for 2 different books, sent separately:
The following document, sent at ... could not be delivered to the Kindle you specified:
* booktitle.mobi

The Kindle Personal Document Service can convert and deliver the following types of documents:
Microsoft Word (.doc, .docx)
Rich Text Format (.rtf)
HTML (.htm, .html)
Text (.txt) documents
Archived documents (zip , x-zip) and compressed archived documents
Mobi book
...

she has only just added me to her allowed senders list, but the error message seems to object to the file, not to the sender

i simply used open file path in calibre, dragged it into outlook 2007 and sent it as an attachment. ...

cybmole · 03-23-2015, 12:27 PM

update - so I ma testing this with my own kindle now & was on phone to amaozn for 15 mins then they lost me while transferring me to someone" more technical".

ai send a 2mb mobi to my kindle - fails. I send a 250K mobi, works, I send a 1Mb mobi fails.

but now I am not sure if it's file size driven or if it is to do with whether the book came from Amazon to begin with i.e. whether it has an ASIN somewhere ?

the larger fails are converted epubs. the email success was an amazon freebie.
not sure what to test next or how best to proceed,,,

well, multitasking like mad here. on phone to some clueless cs at amazon , who is rabbiting about DRM format, & sending test files at same time.
.txt gets converted & delivered ok So does .doc
. but anything that I convert from epub to mobi in calibre to mobi & then send is being bounced.
a test mobi books in calibre which was originally from amazon as mobi worked though.

..
someone smarter at amazon just came on the line & is going to pass the issue to their techies. I'm thinking there's a simple rule about acceptable mobi books via the personal document service that I'm missing ?

PS I can find very old threads on MD reporting the same error but they just peter out.

I wonder if amazon are now scanning for & rejecting anything that has converted by calibre or some such in the metadata.

I'll be real grateful if someone can do similar testing & tell me if they can get from epub in calibre to mobi on kindle via the personal document eamil to your kindle address service

cybmole · 03-23-2015, 01:28 PM

more tests: on the conversion screen in current calibre version, on MOBI OUTPUT screen; kindle options I see a drop down for mobi type: new, old.
default is NEW
will try reconverting a book using OLD instead & see if that will then email ok..

... thumb twiddling....

...spamming the kindle sync button.... & the outlook send receive...

... should have tried a smaller book....

YES - so it WAS a calibre sertting after all. mobi type NEW does NOT play nice with personal document delivery service.

cybmole · 03-23-2015, 02:23 PM

PS - feeling happy that I've sussed it, books are now going to both my kindle & my daughters'; no problem, so I will 'fess up that I lost it somewhat with the 2nd amazon CS muppet.
10 minutes into the 2nd problem discussion & we;d make it past what city did I live in and what (UK) county was that ( 'cos obviously email behaves differently in different counties...
So he left me on hold while he reads the manual & now he's telling me that I can't send files unless they are in "DRM format".
I start to explain that DRM is not a format , and that the test.txt file I'd sent OK did not have any DRM.. but then my patience timed out & I skipped "to sorry to be brutal about it but could you connect me to someone who actually knows what the words mean" ...

all is well that ends well.
Dunno if the new/old mobi thing is well documented elsewhere in calibre help or if it needs more explanation as to how it interacts with send to kindle...

eschwartz · 03-23-2015, 07:30 PM

New format means AZW3 (KF8) -- that setting is only ever used AFAIK by people who want to create a dual-MOBI ("both"). Note: those reportedly work just fine. NOTE2: A KF8 with the .mobi file extension will not magically work just because it calls itself a MOBI.

Yep -- those settings are confusing. OTOH, I am fairly positive the default is "old" -- so you would've had to deliberately set it.

BetterRed · 03-23-2015, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Yep -- those settings are confusing. OTOH, I am fairly positive the default is "old" -- so you would've had to deliberately set it.

default=old, had a vanilla V2.22 at hand.

But what's confusing about this, from tool tip and bottom panel ?

Quote:

By default calibre generates MOBI files that contain the old MOBI 6 format. This format is compatible with all devices. However, by changing this setting, you can tell calibre to generate MOBI files that contain both MOBI 6 and the new KF8 format, or only the new KF8 format. KF8 has more features than MOBI 6, but only works with newer Kindles.

My emphasis

BR

eschwartz · 03-23-2015, 08:21 PM

Because what precisely is the point of a MOBI which contains only KF8? Just convert to AZW3. I am unaware of any actual difference...

Bad enough Amazon already sends you .azw which can be either. Meaningful file extensions can be, well, meaningful.

BetterRed · 03-23-2015, 09:08 PM

@eschwartz - you need to ask Kovid your 'what's the point question'. Maybe you want to minimise the number of file types on your system

One thing I know from decades of supporting tech, is that the less choices people have in their day-to-day usage of tech the more productive they are - in this instance productive would be books read per year.

If you normally want old and occasionally new you could remove AZW3 from available output formats. and change the MOBI File type rather than Output type. I venture most Joe and Jane's would prefer OldKindle and NewKindle rather than MOBI, AZW3, KF8... alphabet soup

BR

eschwartz · 03-23-2015, 09:16 PM

While we are at it, can we just have .ebooks, and none of this confusing EPUB/MOBI/AZW3/FB2/DjVu/LIT/LRF/etc. alphabet soup? I think most Joes and Janes would prefer we just keep things simple...

cybmole · 03-24-2015, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRed

default=old, had a vanilla V2.22 at hand.

But what's confusing about this, from tool tip and bottom panel ?

BR

because there's also a suggestion in the notes that if you want "new" you shoudl use AZW. Surely convert to azw = convert to mobi with "New" option" selected ? except for the file type ?

PS as I've not - for a very long time at least, ever wanted to convert TO mobi, I don't see when how I would have changed that mobi output option default. I guess a " reset to defaults" will test what the default actually is.

I read in epub, I messed with convert to AZW when i got the kindle fire, preferred epub apps, reverted. I wanted yesterday to send books to my daughter's kindle & I recalled reading that there were issues with sending azw, so figured mobi would be easier work better - Duh

30 minutes on phone to amazon, 30 minutes trawling MR & amazon customer forums, much head scratching later...... 1st ever ( I think) visit to mobi output options screen...

anyway, once more for dummies like me, [ and in a separate thread if that's better] why do we need all 4 of convert to:
AZW,
mobi (old)
MOBI (new)
mobi (both)

4 scenarios please, and are all of the above truly "different".
Maybe it's already been discussed /explained at great length & I was not paying attention, in which case a simple link will suffice

I was OK with the 2 formats concept: old mobi, and (newer) AZW, the latter being closer to epub/ editable in calibre.... and i was OK with the idea that amazon usually give you 2 formats in one file for your device to choose the one it prefers.
& I am used to the idea that file extension- ( .mobi, .azw) tells the O/S what to expect inside. But 4 variations ????. and 3 of those with the same extension ???

BetterRed · 03-24-2015, 03:08 AM

@cybmole - if by 'suggestion in the notes' you meant the WARNING under the Mobi file type drop down - then mea culpa - else what 'notes' ?

The tooltip covered it up, so I didn't read it. And I mistakenly assumed a) all I needed to know was in the tooltip (which is echoed to panel at bottom of conversion window), and b) that the note was about the field underneath it - Personal DOC tag.

IMO the 'Warning note' should be above the field to which it refers - MOBI file type.

I find the tooltips usually tell me all I need (want) to know - calibres are the best I've seen -- by a country mile.

BR

cybmole · 03-24-2015, 03:20 AM

OK - but initially I did not even visit that screen!. I followed my normal procedure of clicking convert books on the menu bar then setting the source & target formats. I was not aware of any need to also go set things on an additional screen.
To be fair, I confirm that the current default on that 2nd screen is mobi - old, so maybe I had changed my preference to mobi - new at some time in the past, or maybe some past calibre update affected it.

I still am not getting the deference between mobi-new and AZW

drifting off topic, now we could have gone down the amazon family library route in order to share a few books for a few days, but lI balk at this in aamzon T&C
"..In order to share content, both account holders need to authorise each other to use credit cards associated with their Amazon accounts for purchases on Amazon. This will not affect either of their current payment settings, but each adult will be able to copy the credit cards of the other account to his or her Amazon account and use them for purchases with Amazon."
not because I don't trust my daughter but because I don't get why she needs access to my payment method just to read stuff I've already bought. . If her kindle got nicked from hospital while she was busy giving birth, then having granted it unlimited access to shop on my card seems a pointless security risk. & thefts of small but valuable gadgets from insecure hospital wards does happen

eschwartz · 03-24-2015, 10:44 AM

@cybmole

regarding sharing of credit cards, I expect Amazon's thought processes were something like this: "if you don't trust them with your credit card, they must be random strangers who shouldn't be sharing your books."
Although I don't see the difference between them stealing her Kindle with your credit card info or your Kindle with credit card info -- so while it *may* be a silly rule, it isn't because of that reason.
Note: The Kindle can only buy books, any thief must be interested in improving his education.

The traditional cure is to deregister the device and report it as stolen, then "return" all purchased books. Amazon is very accommodating.

Back on topic, "both" MOBI is what you get from kindlegen, not particularly useful most of the time -- but it has its uses, and fundamentally is an old MOBI.

P.S. It is AZW3, not AZW. Sorry for the additional confusion

(blame Amazon) but .azw is only used as an alternative file extension for MOBI, and on some devices/apps, it is used for all Amazon ebooks regardless of type.

eschwartz · 03-24-2015, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRed

@eschwartz - you need to ask Kovid your 'what's the point question'. Maybe you want to minimise the number of file types on your system

One thing I know from decades of supporting tech, is that the less choices people have in their day-to-day usage of tech the more productive they are - in this instance productive would be books read per year.

If you normally want old and occasionally new you could remove AZW3 from available output formats. and change the MOBI File type rather than Output type. I venture most Joe and Jane's would prefer OldKindle and NewKindle rather than MOBI, AZW3, KF8... alphabet soup

BR

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

While we are at it, can we just have .ebooks, and none of this confusing EPUB/MOBI/AZW3/FB2/DjVu/LIT/LRF/etc. alphabet soup? I think most Joes and Janes would prefer we just keep things simple...

So... what do you think of my improvement on your suggestion?

...

cybmole · 03-24-2015, 11:00 AM

I must be having a bad brain week. I still don't get the difference between azw(3) and "new" mobi"

ignoring the extension naming scheme confusion, is what's in the file different.

I think I get the rest but please point out any further errors.

"old " mobi is what we had before azw was invented - it's what amazon grabbed from mobipocket, & its what calibre would have converted to before there was a mobi output choice screen,

"both" is obviously old + new.

at some point, I slept through calibre evolving to support both new and old mobi and adding a choice screen.
( I assume that it was some genius at amazon, mot at MR, that decided we should call both .mobi - to me this like someone inventing a new, improved .mp3 but calling it .mp3, for giggles)

"azw" is what I see on some books in My Kindle Content. If I add those files to calibre they become AZW3 ( for some obvious reason that escapes me this week )
" mobi" is what I see for the other books in My Kindle content folder
( excluding any .prc that may have sneaked in - lets not go there yet ! )

question: inside the ".mobi" delivered to My Kindle Content by Kindle for PC, is there new/ old / or both or does that vary by book ?

quote: While we are at it, can we just have .ebooks. that would be the .ebok format ? but amazon already use it. pretty sure I've seen it in Kindle Fire folders

03-23-2015, 11:53 AM	#1
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	epub to mobi then send to kindle document service fail not sure if this it calibre or amazon issue: My daughter ahs a new kindle & is goin into hospital so we are trying to get the email a book trick to work. she has set me up as an allowed sebder & I hve slected a drm free epub my my calibre library, converted to to mobi and meiled it to jer kindle address. I get an error back from amazon with a long list of reasons why its might have failed, none of which apply so I am stuck on how to debug. I get this back for 2 different books, sent separately: The following document, sent at ... could not be delivered to the Kindle you specified: * booktitle.mobi The Kindle Personal Document Service can convert and deliver the following types of documents: Microsoft Word (.doc, .docx) Rich Text Format (.rtf) HTML (.htm, .html) Text (.txt) documents Archived documents (zip , x-zip) and compressed archived documents Mobi book ... she has only just added me to her allowed senders list, but the error message seems to object to the file, not to the sender i simply used open file path in calibre, dragged it into outlook 2007 and sent it as an attachment. ...

03-23-2015, 12:27 PM	#2
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	update - so I ma testing this with my own kindle now & was on phone to amaozn for 15 mins then they lost me while transferring me to someone" more technical". ai send a 2mb mobi to my kindle - fails. I send a 250K mobi, works, I send a 1Mb mobi fails. but now I am not sure if it's file size driven or if it is to do with whether the book came from Amazon to begin with i.e. whether it has an ASIN somewhere ? the larger fails are converted epubs. the email success was an amazon freebie. not sure what to test next or how best to proceed,,, well, multitasking like mad here. on phone to some clueless cs at amazon , who is rabbiting about DRM format, & sending test files at same time. .txt gets converted & delivered ok So does .doc . but anything that I convert from epub to mobi in calibre to mobi & then send is being bounced. a test mobi books in calibre which was originally from amazon as mobi worked though. .. someone smarter at amazon just came on the line & is going to pass the issue to their techies. I'm thinking there's a simple rule about acceptable mobi books via the personal document service that I'm missing ? PS I can find very old threads on MD reporting the same error but they just peter out. I wonder if amazon are now scanning for & rejecting anything that has converted by calibre or some such in the metadata. I'll be real grateful if someone can do similar testing & tell me if they can get from epub in calibre to mobi on kindle via the personal document eamil to your kindle address service Last edited by cybmole; 03-23-2015 at 01:08 PM.

03-23-2015, 07:30 PM	#5
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	New format means AZW3 (KF8) -- that setting is only ever used AFAIK by people who want to create a dual-MOBI ("both"). Note: those reportedly work just fine. NOTE2: A KF8 with the .mobi file extension will not magically work just because it calls itself a MOBI. Yep -- those settings are confusing. OTOH, I am fairly positive the default is "old" -- so you would've had to deliberately set it. Last edited by eschwartz; 03-23-2015 at 08:22 PM.

03-24-2015, 03:20 AM	#12
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	OK - but initially I did not even visit that screen!. I followed my normal procedure of clicking convert books on the menu bar then setting the source & target formats. I was not aware of any need to also go set things on an additional screen. To be fair, I confirm that the current default on that 2nd screen is mobi - old, so maybe I had changed my preference to mobi - new at some time in the past, or maybe some past calibre update affected it. I still am not getting the deference between mobi-new and AZW drifting off topic, now we could have gone down the amazon family library route in order to share a few books for a few days, but lI balk at this in aamzon T&C "..In order to share content, both account holders need to authorise each other to use credit cards associated with their Amazon accounts for purchases on Amazon. This will not affect either of their current payment settings, but each adult will be able to copy the credit cards of the other account to his or her Amazon account and use them for purchases with Amazon." not because I don't trust my daughter but because I don't get why she needs access to my payment method just to read stuff I've already bought. . If her kindle got nicked from hospital while she was busy giving birth, then having granted it unlimited access to shop on my card seems a pointless security risk. & thefts of small but valuable gadgets from insecure hospital wards does happen Last edited by cybmole; 03-24-2015 at 03:22 AM.

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03-23-2015, 01:28 PM	#3
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	more tests: on the conversion screen in current calibre version, on MOBI OUTPUT screen; kindle options I see a drop down for mobi type: new, old. default is NEW will try reconverting a book using OLD instead & see if that will then email ok.. ... thumb twiddling.... ...spamming the kindle sync button.... & the outlook send receive... ... should have tried a smaller book.... YES - so it WAS a calibre sertting after all. mobi type NEW does NOT play nice with personal document delivery service.

03-23-2015, 02:23 PM	#4
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	PS - feeling happy that I've sussed it, books are now going to both my kindle & my daughters'; no problem, so I will 'fess up that I lost it somewhat with the 2nd amazon CS muppet. 10 minutes into the 2nd problem discussion & we;d make it past what city did I live in and what (UK) county was that ( 'cos obviously email behaves differently in different counties... So he left me on hold while he reads the manual & now he's telling me that I can't send files unless they are in "DRM format". I start to explain that DRM is not a format , and that the test.txt file I'd sent OK did not have any DRM.. but then my patience timed out & I skipped "to sorry to be brutal about it but could you connect me to someone who actually knows what the words mean" ... all is well that ends well. Dunno if the new/old mobi thing is well documented elsewhere in calibre help or if it needs more explanation as to how it interacts with send to kindle...

03-23-2015, 08:21 PM	#7
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Because what precisely is the point of a MOBI which contains only KF8? Just convert to AZW3. I am unaware of any actual difference... Bad enough Amazon already sends you .azw which can be either. Meaningful file extensions can be, well, meaningful.

03-23-2015, 09:08 PM	#8
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,650 Karma: 29711016 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	@eschwartz - you need to ask Kovid your 'what's the point question'. Maybe you want to minimise the number of file types on your system One thing I know from decades of supporting tech, is that the less choices people have in their day-to-day usage of tech the more productive they are - in this instance productive would be books read per year. If you normally want old and occasionally new you could remove AZW3 from available output formats. and change the MOBI File type rather than Output type. I venture most Joe and Jane's would prefer OldKindle and NewKindle rather than MOBI, AZW3, KF8... alphabet soup BR

03-23-2015, 09:16 PM	#9
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	While we are at it, can we just have .ebooks, and none of this confusing EPUB/MOBI/AZW3/FB2/DjVu/LIT/LRF/etc. alphabet soup? I think most Joes and Janes would prefer we just keep things simple...

03-24-2015, 03:08 AM	#11
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,650 Karma: 29711016 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	@cybmole - if by 'suggestion in the notes' you meant the WARNING under the Mobi file type drop down - then mea culpa - else what 'notes' ? The tooltip covered it up, so I didn't read it. And I mistakenly assumed a) all I needed to know was in the tooltip (which is echoed to panel at bottom of conversion window), and b) that the note was about the field underneath it - Personal DOC tag. IMO the 'Warning note' should be above the field to which it refers - MOBI file type. I find the tooltips usually tell me all I need (want) to know - calibres are the best I've seen -- by a country mile. BR

03-24-2015, 10:44 AM	#13
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	@cybmole regarding sharing of credit cards, I expect Amazon's thought processes were something like this: "if you don't trust them with your credit card, they must be random strangers who shouldn't be sharing your books." Although I don't see the difference between them stealing her Kindle with your credit card info or your Kindle with credit card info -- so while it may be a silly rule, it isn't because of that reason. Note: The Kindle can only buy books, any thief must be interested in improving his education. The traditional cure is to deregister the device and report it as stolen, then "return" all purchased books. Amazon is very accommodating. Back on topic, "both" MOBI is what you get from kindlegen, not particularly useful most of the time -- but it has its uses, and fundamentally is an old MOBI. P.S. It is AZW3, not AZW. Sorry for the additional confusion (blame Amazon) but .azw is only used as an alternative file extension for MOBI, and on some devices/apps, it is used for all Amazon ebooks regardless of type.

03-24-2015, 11:00 AM	#15
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	I must be having a bad brain week. I still don't get the difference between azw(3) and "new" mobi" ignoring the extension naming scheme confusion, is what's in the file different. I think I get the rest but please point out any further errors. "old " mobi is what we had before azw was invented - it's what amazon grabbed from mobipocket, & its what calibre would have converted to before there was a mobi output choice screen, "both" is obviously old + new. at some point, I slept through calibre evolving to support both new and old mobi and adding a choice screen. ( I assume that it was some genius at amazon, mot at MR, that decided we should call both .mobi - to me this like someone inventing a new, improved .mp3 but calling it .mp3, for giggles) "azw" is what I see on some books in My Kindle Content. If I add those files to calibre they become AZW3 ( for some obvious reason that escapes me this week ) " mobi" is what I see for the other books in My Kindle content folder ( excluding any .prc that may have sneaked in - lets not go there yet ! ) question: inside the ".mobi" delivered to My Kindle Content by Kindle for PC, is there new/ old / or both or does that vary by book ? quote: While we are at it, can we just have .ebooks. that would be the .ebok format ? but amazon already use it. pretty sure I've seen it in Kindle Fire folders

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