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Old 03-17-2015, 09:50 AM   #1
indieauthor83
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How to add smart quotes in sigil?

Hello,

Can anyone please tell me how to add curly quotes in Sigil?

As I believe, because it's not a word processor, there is no option in there to change quotes automatically. And I no longer have the original word document. So can anyone please tell me how I can change the text (straight quotes) that it's Sigil, to curly quotes.

I know what the html code is: & (#8221; ) minus the brackets, and & (#8220; ) minus the brackets. I've added brackets so you can see the code I've tried using. I can get it to work on here... “ see ” but when I type this into Sigil it doesn't render (it comes up with an error message).

All replies are appreciated!

Last edited by indieauthor83; 03-17-2015 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:30 PM   #2
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How can this possible be a Kindle issue? Moved to Sigil.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:39 PM   #3
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They're in the "Insert Special Character" menu.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
but when I type this into Sigil it doesn't render (it comes up with an error message).
—and that error message would be ... ?

The "html code" you're referring to are called "entities." Yours are specifically called numeric entities. You certainly shouldn't get an error message if you enter them properly in Sigil's Code View. I don't even get an error message when I enter them in Book View, so I'm not sure what you're doing wrong there.

Also, you don't have to to use entities at all if you don't want to. You can use Insert->Special Character to put the actual typographic curly-quote characters into your work. You can copy them from your PC's Character Map program (Windows and Linux), or you could learn the Alt-codes to type them directly.

You could also try the PunctuationSmarten Sigil plugin to try to convert them automatically if you have python installed (though no automatic "Click the Go Button and wait" algorithm is going to be entirely fool-proof depending on the level of source complexity involved).

Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-17-2015 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:19 PM   #5
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@Indy

They are a PAIR & ldaquo; and & rdaquo;

a simple replace will not cut it in my book
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:42 PM   #6
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Not always a pair - many style guides (eg Chicago) state there should be no closing quote on dialogue if it continues in next paragraph - only the last part will have a closing quote. Of course I'm talking English language style guides - other languages may be and are different.

Irrespective of what quotes are used (single, double, curly, straight or guillemots [sic]) to check dialogue one needs something like Toxaris' addon for Word - 'tis excellent

BR

Last edited by BetterRed; 03-17-2015 at 03:50 PM. Reason: grammer - sic
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Not always a pair - many style guides (eg Chicago) state there should be no closing quote on dialogue if it continues in next paragraph - only the last part will have a closing quote.

BR
Nit picker

A Set, however it is used
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:50 PM   #8
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Entities should work just fine, I too would love to hear about these error messages.

Note: calibre's editor has an interesting feature -- type in a valid entity, and it will be automatically turned into the unicode codepoint when you type the closing ";" as well as when Beautify does a pass. Also, Smarten Punctuation is builtin.

Very useful for seeing what's what at a glance, to turn the entities into the actual characters in question.

Last edited by eschwartz; 03-17-2015 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theducks View Post
Nit picker

A Set, however it is used
Not nit picking - the absence of a closing quote informs the reader that the speech is continued in next paragraph. If first para has a closing quote then the writer 'should probably' write what may be waste of space dialogue tags like - John continued, "Blah de blah... so that the reader knows its the same person speaking.

BR
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theducks View Post
Nit picker

A Set, however it is used
Actually, BR is right. It does not have to be a set. Take a look at the following example:
Code:
He said: “I will start now.
“And continue on this line.
“And finally shut up here.”
This is a normal example. The quotation/dialogue is continued on the next paragraph and a new opening quotation mark will be displayed. Only on the last line there is a closing mark. So, it can very well be more than a set. I do not know how the Sigil plugin is handling that, but I do know that my Word add-in does support it.
Downside is the additional required application (Word). Actions would be the import of the ePUB into Word (my add-in also supports that...), replacing the quotes (there is a procedure for that) and check the dialogues/quotations (again a procedure). Finally export to ePUB and touch up.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:32 PM   #11
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@Toxaris - did I dream it, or did you once post you would look into the possibility of porting some/all of your Word Add-on modules as plugins for Sigil - Dialogue Check would be an obvious one.

If I dreamt it then ignore me

BR
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxaris View Post
I do not know how the Sigil plugin is handling that, but I do know that my Word add-in does support it.
The plugin (well technically, anything built around the SmartyPants algorithm) has no trouble with multiple paragraph quotations. That situation's not actually all that tricky when it comes to auto-smartening (provided, of course, that your smartening algorithm isn't predicated upon matching up pairs of quotation marks).

Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-17-2015 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:54 PM   #13
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Dialogue checking can't be automated without some contextual analysis, consider this:

Quote:
John yelled, "Now see here miss smartypants... you're grounded for a week!
"But the School Prom is on Saturday, you dumbass monster!" Mary screamed as she stormed out of the room waving her hands like a banshee.
Tox's add on would stop at that and allow the user to intervene, in this case the first paragraph obviously needs a closing quote.

Whereas in the sample Tox gives, the lack of a closing quote on para's 1 & 2 is as it should be.

BR
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Dialogue checking can't be automated without some contextual analysis, consider this:
Agreed... but with a small observation: you're conflating auto-checking with auto-smartening. My plugin is only concerned with the latter.

If you can't trust that the source material is quoted correctly, sure, stopping to ask questions can be very useful. But if the source material is already properly quoted/proofed (albeit with straight quotes), the quotation spanning multiple paragraphs (and most dialogue, for that matter) is not that tricky to smarten automatically.

I make no bones about the fact that neither of my smartening plugins are proofing tools. They weren't meant to be. They certainly won't "fix" (or even notice) a missing closing quotation mark, but they will correctly smarten the quotation marks that are there (in your example). That's all I've ever needed/asked them to do. *shrug*

If I have questionable source material that I suspect may be missing some quotation marks in dialogue, then I'd probably favor something like Tox's add on for that situation, too. But for the example you gave, auto-smartening would leave you no worse off than you were before—missing a closing quotation mark. And that's for the proofers to catch.

@Toxaris: you do great work. If I'm still IN the Word stage of a document, it's your tools/addons I'm using. I'm just not going to go from epub BACK to Word to gain a little quotation-proofing.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-17-2015 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 03-17-2015, 06:03 PM   #15
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Hey
I got a 'D' in High school English composition.
Clearly, I am NOT an expert
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