Epub2 books that only download as kepub

[Lynx-lynx]

Now that Kobo's showing the book format and DRM status on the book details page again, I thought it worth mentioning that not all epub2, Adobe DRM epub books are able to be downloaded. Instead these books can still only be retrieved via Kobo Desktop for PC (or perhaps a tablet or app depending on the book).

For example, a book in My Library that shows as 'Download options Adobe DRM epub', does not have a blue ADOBE DRM EPUB download button. The book can only be found in Desktop for PC.

Attached are a couple of photos that illustrate what I refer to.

The fact that it's kepub doesn't worry me because I have the means to convert it to epub, but this book is just an ordinary book with no illustrations or anything fancy and is part of a series which is downloadable.

So, I think that it's just basic human (or machine?) error that it's missing the download button.

[Lynx-lynx]

Does this book mean that it's an epub3 format or something else? It's only able to be downloaded by Desktop for PC (or perhaps tablet and apps)

100 Best Smoothies & Juices
The Ultimate Ingredients For Healthy Living Including 100 Revitalizing Recipes

Again the fact that it's a kepub only doesn't bother me because I have the means to convert it, but I am curious as to its format.

Edit
I might note that I have a number of Nigella Lawson books and they are epub 2 and ADE downloaded, so it's not the fact of all the pictures in the book that makes this one different.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Does this book mean that it's an epub3 format or something else? It's only able to be downloaded by Desktop for PC (or perhaps tablet and apps)

100 Best Smoothies & Juices
The Ultimate Ingredients For Healthy Living Including 100 Revitalizing Recipes

Again the fact that it's a kepub only doesn't bother me because I have the means to convert it, but I am curious as to its format.

Edit
I might note that I have a number of Nigella Lawson books and they are epub 2 and ADE downloaded, so it's not the fact of all the pictures in the book that makes this one different.

A quick look at the device list you posted does not show the eReaders or Desktop icons so the Kobo Desktop application for Windows or Mac and Kobo's eInk ereaders are not included in the list of supported devices/software. This suggests the book is not epub2/epub3/kepub/pdf format and is only handled by Kobo ereader apps (iOS, Android, Windows 8+). When you see the Tablets icon, it is referring to Kobo's line of tablets so covered by the Android app and, IMHO, redundant.

[davidfor]

To my mind, that first one is a bug in Kobo's site. Either the format displayed is correct and the missing download option is the problem or the format is incorrect and the lack of a download option is correct. In either case, you should complain to Kobo and get them to fix it.

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by DNSB

A quick look at the device list you posted does not show the eReaders or Desktop icons so the Kobo Desktop application for Windows or Mac and Kobo's eInk ereaders are not included in the list of supported devices/software. This suggests the book is not epub2/epub3/kepub/pdf format and is only handled by Kobo ereader apps (iOS, Android, Windows 8+). When you see the Tablets icon, it is referring to Kobo's line of tablets so covered by the Android app and, IMHO, redundant.

That's interesting because I haven't got it in calibre, so I'll need to fit it in ver the next day or so to check out that Desktop account's kepubs.

Thanks!!

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by davidfor

To my mind, that first one is a bug in Kobo's site. Either the format displayed is correct and the missing download option is the problem or the format is incorrect and the lack of a download option is correct. In either case, you should complain to Kobo and get them to fix it.

Yeah it is an odd example, but it's in Calibre and converted and I've read the book, so I didn't have any troubles extracting it from Kobo Desktop.

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Does this book mean that it's an epub3 format or something else? It's only able to be downloaded by Desktop for PC (or perhaps tablet and apps)

100 Best Smoothies & Juices
The Ultimate Ingredients For Healthy Living Including 100 Revitalizing Recipes

Again the fact that it's a kepub only doesn't bother me because I have the means to convert it, but I am curious as to its format.

Edit
I might note that I have a number of Nigella Lawson books and they are epub 2 and ADE downloaded, so it's not the fact of all the pictures in the book that makes this one different.

When I check this book out in the Canadian store the key thing *I* see is:

This eBook will be available on December 5, 2014. Pre-order Price Guarantee.

Might this explain the lack of formats?

Admittedly the ISBN info is different fron your edition

Parragon Books Ltd., December 2014Imprint:
Love Food
ISBN: 9781472315779
Language:English

[Sharkus]

Well that'll teach me to read the release emails more closely then! I did know the game was afoot to put the details back in, and it was part of a package of work, but I wasn't sure exactly when it would be released, nor, for obvious reasons, could I have said anything anyway.

As for the smoothies book. There seem to be two entries. One for CA, US, and BR, the other for GB, AU, NZ, DE, FR, ES, NL, IT, HK, SG, AT, CH, ID, JP, PT, ZA. It'll be the latter that you have, as the other, as mentioned by Peter is a pre-order.

I'm about to have a quick look, but I suspect it's an ePub2 fixed layout book, and that is certainly one format of book that doesn't have the Adobe DRM download option. I'll update the post once I've had a chance to look at the book and confirm.

** edit **
Confirmed, it's ePub2 Fixed Layout.

As said above, I do not believe we have ever offered an Adobe DRM download option for fixed layout content, and typically they can only be read on our Tablet devices, or the mobile apps (certainly iOS and Android apps can view these files)

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Sharkus

I'm about to have a quick look, but I suspect it's an ePub2 fixed layout book, and that is certainly one format of book that doesn't have the Adobe DRM download option. I'll update the post once I've had a chance to look at the book and confirm.

** edit **
Confirmed, it's ePub2 Fixed Layout.

As said above, I do not believe we have ever offered an Adobe DRM download option for fixed layout content, and typically they can only be read on our Tablet devices, or the mobile apps (certainly iOS and Android apps can view these files)

Minor nit: FLO is an epub3 feature.

Not so minor nit: From what I've seen on epubtest.org, the Kobo's eInk devices have pretty much the same level of FLO support as the Android app and better support than the iOS app in testing done in June, 2014. The comparisons I did back in September pretty well matched those results.

For those interested, you can download the test suite from epubtest.org either in bits and pieces or a .zip archive of the entire test suite. For the current .zip archive, Test Suite ZIP archive is the download link.

For a Kobo eInk device, rename the files in the archive to .kepub.epub to use the ACCESS renderer though using .epub and looking at the suite gives a good idea of why trying to read an epub3 ebook on an epub2 renderer is Not A Good Idea.

[Sharkus]

Perhaps it's a terminology thing then, in regards to the ePub2 Fixed Layout point.
Would it be better to say ePub2 non-reflowable?

Not being rude here, genuinely curious as we have had support in the iOS app for fixed layout content for a while now and this was before we had ePub3 support, and thus they would be ePub2 files.

If I was detailing an issue with content internally, I'd usually refer to it initially as a book, and when asked what format, it'd likely be reflowable, or fixed layout / comic book / SMIL. If it's reflowable then it'd probably be asked if ePub2 or ePub3.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Sharkus

Perhaps it's a terminology thing then, in regards to the ePub2 Fixed Layout point.
Would it be better to say ePub2 non-reflowable?

Not being rude here, genuinely curious as we have had support in the iOS app for fixed layout content for a while now and this was before we had ePub3 support, and thus they would be ePub2 files.

If I was detailing an issue with content internally, I'd usually refer to it initially as a book, and when asked what format, it'd likely be reflowable, or fixed layout / comic book / SMIL. If it's reflowable then it'd probably be asked if ePub2 or ePub3.

Terminology aside, fixed layout is not supported by a pure epub2 renderer. You can have support for FLO or part of FLO without supporting much else of epub3 though FLO is a pretty major epub3 feature with quite a few feature sets that should be supported. As an example, Datalogics DL Reader under Windows which uses the RMSDK 10 codebase handles some FLO features.

The iOS app's (v 7.3??) FLO support was severely limited the last time I tested it around June/July 2014. Synthetic spreads didn't work, landscape and portrait test documents were rendered in whatever orientation I was holding my iPad in instead of being forced to landscape or portrait, reflowable overrides gave interesting pages, etc.

Neither the iOS app or the Android app are my favoured way to read ebooks so I don't update/test them all that often. During the summer I was playing with the Bureau van Dijk demo application running under Android since it was the only software at that time to get over a 90% rating in all the major test areas. Admittedly, the Kobo eInk ereaders are handicapped there since the current models have an automatic fail on all the multimedia overlay features.

I have also seen some epubs being labelled as epub2/3. Generally, this means that they have both the epub2 and epub3 navigation documents but a couple have made use of quite a few epub3 features used with some care so that an epub2 renderer can display a readable page. Not pretty but readable.