MOBI without TOC.xhtml

Oxford-eBooks · 10-01-2014, 10:43 AM

I've noticed that Kindlegen will barf if I don't include TOC.xhtml in my eBook. So I've been putting it in with a nice table of contents for years. A client wants to NOT have a contents page in his MOBI and I was wondering if anyone has happened to come across a workaround.

I could have simply had blank or 'other' content on that page to effectively hide it, but that kind of breaks things a little, and I'm really aversed to hacks.

I could put it as the last chapter in the eBook, but then I run into the one automatically put into the MOBI and we end up with two.

Thoughts?

Doitsu · 10-01-2014, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxford-eBooks

I've noticed that Kindlegen will barf if I don't include TOC.xhtml in my eBook. So I've been putting it in with a nice table of contents for years. A client wants to NOT have a contents page in his MOBI and I was wondering if anyone has happened to come across a workaround.

Since HTML TOCs are only required for older Kindles, you could use media queries and display:none to hide the contents of the TOC in AZW3 books using media queries.

For more information, see the Kindle Publishing Guidelines.

Oxford-eBooks · 10-01-2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Since HTML TOCs are only required for older Kindles, you could use media queries and display:none to hide the contents of the TOC in AZW3 books using media queries.

For more information, see the Kindle Publishing Guidelines.

That's a neat idea, but won't the hidden page show up in the NCX view still?

(btw, the forum won't let me add karma to you for some reason, so have this... in leiu)

odedta · 10-01-2014, 01:40 PM

Karma sent on your behalf Oxford-eBooks

odedta · 10-01-2014, 01:42 PM

To the point, why not include a toc.html but make it have no links or just remove it from the spine... as for toc.ncx... make it empty. (links to nothing)

Doitsu · 10-01-2014, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxford-eBooks

That's a neat idea, but won't the hidden page show up in the NCX view still?

The HTML TOC itself doesn't need to be included in the NCX TOC; you only need to define it via a guide item in the .opf file for older Kindles.

Hitch · 10-01-2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxford-eBooks

I've noticed that Kindlegen will barf if I don't include TOC.xhtml in my eBook. So I've been putting it in with a nice table of contents for years. A client wants to NOT have a contents page in his MOBI and I was wondering if anyone has happened to come across a workaround.

I could have simply had blank or 'other' content on that page to effectively hide it, but that kind of breaks things a little, and I'm really aversed to hacks.

I could put it as the last chapter in the eBook, but then I run into the one automatically put into the MOBI and we end up with two.

Thoughts?

You may wish to alert your client that if s/he is widely read, s/he may expect to receive a KQN for not having a TOC in short order. The more widely-read an author, the more likely it is to receive a reader complaint, and if you don't have a TOC, Amazon is likely to actually remove the book from sale, for NOT having one.

This happened to a client of mine, so I speak from experience. (Not like I didn't warn her). Mroeover, she actually HAD a TOC--it was called "Cast of Characters," and it linked to each of the character-vignettes in her book. It was linked correctly from the Guide, etc.

Nonetheless--one customer complaint and Amazon removed the book from sale. if his/her issue is the front-matter and the LITB, tell him/her to put a short TOC at the front, like Patterson, and put the full, linked (and linked from the Guide) TOC at the rear.

Other than that, your only alternative is really to just do the Patterson thing. The title and "Start Reading." but, again, be warned: Just because Patterson gets away with it doesn't mean your client will, depending upon who s/he is.

Hitch

AThirstyMind · 10-02-2014, 11:53 AM

I always hand-construct a TOC into the Word file (don't let Word generate anything... don't let anyone else either) right before the start of the story (Prologue/Chapter 1 or whatever) then link each entry back to the h1, h2 or h3 headings. I like the look of it, readers don't seem to mind, Amazon is happy, and my clients don't mind the space it takes up in their Sample. However, if the TOC is incredibly long (I just did one with more than 60 chapters) I put a short 'TOC' in the front, a Contents in the back and link them. Amazon hasn't seemed to mind, but then this doesn't happen often.

Hitch · 10-02-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AThirstyMind

I always hand-construct a TOC into the Word file (don't let Word generate anything... don't let anyone else either) right before the start of the story (Prologue/Chapter 1 or whatever) then link each entry back to the h1, h2 or h3 headings. I like the look of it, readers don't seem to mind, Amazon is happy, and my clients don't mind the space it takes up in their Sample. However, if the TOC is incredibly long (I just did one with more than 60 chapters) I put a short 'TOC' in the front, a Contents in the back and link them. Amazon hasn't seemed to mind, but then this doesn't happen often.

I must ask:

Why the hand-construction, instead of using Word's TOC tool?

Hitch

odedta · 10-02-2014, 07:49 PM

Why not Calibre's or Sigil's TOC editing tools? they are much better than the methods you suggested in my opinion.

AThirstyMind · 10-03-2014, 11:19 AM

Hitch... because I'm a control freak and like my own look for the TOC... also when I started out (years ago)the instructions were NOT to use the Word TOC-tool. Creature of habit I guess. I also always hated the look of the MobiPocket generated TOC as well as the Calibre generated one.

Odeta... the same answer as the one I gave Hitch. Most devices use the ncx toc anyway now except the older Kindle models, don't they. This 'in the front of the book before the start of your text' is for only those older Kindle models. It takes a bit longer (bookmarking and linking) but normally not more than 15min or so. And also because occasionally Smashwords will say "Where's your TOC" because although it's not necessary now for epubs, it is necessary for the books Smashwords makes for sale on their own site.

Doitsu · 10-03-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AThirstyMind

It takes a bit longer (bookmarking and linking) but normally not more than 15min or so.

If your chapter headings are encoded using heading tags, you can generate both NCX and HTML TOCs in less than 15 seconds with Sigil (XP version).

Hitch · 10-03-2014, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AThirstyMind

Hitch... because I'm a control freak and like my own look for the TOC... also when I started out (years ago)the instructions were NOT to use the Word TOC-tool. Creature of habit I guess. I also always hated the look of the MobiPocket generated TOC as well as the Calibre generated one.

Odeta... the same answer as the one I gave Hitch. Most devices use the ncx toc anyway now except the older Kindle models, don't they. This 'in the front of the book before the start of your text' is for only those older Kindle models. It takes a bit longer (bookmarking and linking) but normally not more than 15min or so. And also because occasionally Smashwords will say "Where's your TOC" because although it's not necessary now for epubs, it is necessary for the books Smashwords makes for sale on their own site.

ATM:

Well...it's easy-peasy to style the word-generated TOC, so that's why I'm a bit confuddled. You can make it "look" any way you like, with the simple expedient of styles. Everything from fonts to level of indentation (if any) to line-height...{shrug}. I would find making them by hand now to be a tedious waste of time, as really, I can't think of any reason NOT to. I further don't really recall the instructions "not" to use it, except for those folks who never could figure out the differences between headers and paragraph styles. I've used the Word TOC tool for literally dogs' years, LONG before I ever looked at my first eBook; I used them "back in the day" for making interactive linked TOC's for long legal documents I was working on (like multi-hundred-page CC&R's, for example, or lengthy lease agreements for commercial property). I'm going back at LEAST to...hell, the 90's?

I concur about the old MOBIpocket TOCs, but again, those can/could be styled (within HTML reason, not CSS), back when we were all using them, what, 5-6 years ago? But obviously, a lot's happened since then.

Vis-a-vis the Kindle devices--no, they don't "all" or even in the majority, yet, use the NCX. And given that ePUB3 is sending the NCX the way of the dodo, and moving to a more "toc.html" type approach (I don't care WHAT they call it), I'd think that you might want to bite the bullet and learn the fast way. But, hey: if what you're doing works for you, who am I to argue?

Best,
Hitch

AThirstyMind · 10-04-2014, 11:40 PM

Hitch, I'm a person of habit. But thanks for the info about NCX. Actually I believe it was Smashwords who instructed formatters not to use the Word TOC feature way back when. Really doing it yourself with Styles (Flush or Center or Normal or whatever) even for a book with tons of chapters takes less than 10 minutes. I find it relaxing (bookmarking/linking). Just my quirk.

10-01-2014, 10:43 AM	#1
Oxford-eBooks Zealot Posts: 138 Karma: 12096 Join Date: May 2010 Device: Loads!	MOBI without TOC.xhtml I've noticed that Kindlegen will barf if I don't include TOC.xhtml in my eBook. So I've been putting it in with a nice table of contents for years. A client wants to NOT have a contents page in his MOBI and I was wondering if anyone has happened to come across a workaround. I could have simply had blank or 'other' content on that page to effectively hide it, but that kind of breaks things a little, and I'm really aversed to hacks. I could put it as the last chapter in the eBook, but then I run into the one automatically put into the MOBI and we end up with two. Thoughts?

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10-01-2014, 01:40 PM	#4
odedta Addict Posts: 398 Karma: 96448 Join Date: Dec 2013 Device: iPad	Karma sent on your behalf Oxford-eBooks

10-01-2014, 01:42 PM	#5
odedta Addict Posts: 398 Karma: 96448 Join Date: Dec 2013 Device: iPad	To the point, why not include a toc.html but make it have no links or just remove it from the spine... as for toc.ncx... make it empty. (links to nothing)

10-02-2014, 11:53 AM	#8
AThirstyMind A Thirsty Mind Posts: 92 Karma: 2546 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Lubec, Maine Device: Kindle Fire, iPad, iPhone	I always hand-construct a TOC into the Word file (don't let Word generate anything... don't let anyone else either) right before the start of the story (Prologue/Chapter 1 or whatever) then link each entry back to the h1, h2 or h3 headings. I like the look of it, readers don't seem to mind, Amazon is happy, and my clients don't mind the space it takes up in their Sample. However, if the TOC is incredibly long (I just did one with more than 60 chapters) I put a short 'TOC' in the front, a Contents in the back and link them. Amazon hasn't seemed to mind, but then this doesn't happen often.

10-02-2014, 07:49 PM	#10
odedta Addict Posts: 398 Karma: 96448 Join Date: Dec 2013 Device: iPad	Why not Calibre's or Sigil's TOC editing tools? they are much better than the methods you suggested in my opinion.

10-03-2014, 11:19 AM	#11
AThirstyMind A Thirsty Mind Posts: 92 Karma: 2546 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Lubec, Maine Device: Kindle Fire, iPad, iPhone	Hitch... because I'm a control freak and like my own look for the TOC... also when I started out (years ago)the instructions were NOT to use the Word TOC-tool. Creature of habit I guess. I also always hated the look of the MobiPocket generated TOC as well as the Calibre generated one. Odeta... the same answer as the one I gave Hitch. Most devices use the ncx toc anyway now except the older Kindle models, don't they. This 'in the front of the book before the start of your text' is for only those older Kindle models. It takes a bit longer (bookmarking and linking) but normally not more than 15min or so. And also because occasionally Smashwords will say "Where's your TOC" because although it's not necessary now for epubs, it is necessary for the books Smashwords makes for sale on their own site.

10-04-2014, 11:40 PM	#14
AThirstyMind A Thirsty Mind Posts: 92 Karma: 2546 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Lubec, Maine Device: Kindle Fire, iPad, iPhone	Hitch, I'm a person of habit. But thanks for the info about NCX. Actually I believe it was Smashwords who instructed formatters not to use the Word TOC feature way back when. Really doing it yourself with Styles (Flush or Center or Normal or whatever) even for a book with tons of chapters takes less than 10 minutes. I find it relaxing (bookmarking/linking). Just my quirk.

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