latest kobo android app - a disastrous upgrade!

[cybmole]

I saw that the google store app had been updated - 6th aug- so I sideloaded ithe apkto my Kindle fire HD
disaster! - whatever they have done to line spacing - the spacing in my books is now beign ignored and text is all squashed up.

I've had to uninstall, & sideload the previous version - lucky I kept that, but now I've had to reset my login & am having to reload all books & locate where I'd gotten to. ( I had to completely uninstall because the older version would not install over the newer version.)

I dunno if they have screwed this up for all android tablets ?

NB there is no explicit line spacing control in the app, but my previous experience was that so long as I removed explicit line heights from each book, then line spacing would scale naturally with font size.
it did in the older version, not it does not.

not sure if this is intentional but its awful ugly, to my eyes ?

I am not wanting to put this back onto tablet to grab the version number but it is the file that is on google play as at now - 6th aug, the apk file size is 38,584KB . I have it in dropbox

I have re-installed version 5.4.12225 which is fine.

now there is an outside chance that I've I've panicked too quickly but I did look at the obvious app controls & saw no way to get my books displaying like they did before. an app upgrade should not in any case drastically change how it renders text without any forewarning, surely ?. all you get in the android app anyway is a size slider, a brightness control, and a choice of 3 fonts. ( & a tick box for "use kobo styling" - on or off - enabling that seemed to just add more space between paragraphs so I never used it - I prefer to see what the book CSS defines ))
with this latest version the books were rendering as if they contained a fixed , cramped line height which was not scaling as you adjusted font size.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by cybmole

I saw that the google store app had been updated - 6th aug- so I sideloaded ithe apkto my Kindle fire HD
disaster! - whatever they have done to line spacing - the spacing in my books is now beign ignored and text is all squashed up.

I haven't notice lines being squashed on my Nexus 7 HD with the updated Kobo app. Perhaps an issue with the differences between the Kindle Fire OS and Google's stock Android OS?

Regards,
David

[cybmole]

the guy at android feedback is not seeing the issue either, so far. can you please view the attached test file which I just made & sent him, & tell us what you see.
My observations follow:
I put copies of this simple 3 paragraph test “book” onto my Kobo arc tablet ( running v5.5 of kobo reader) and onto my Kindle Fire HDX ( running v 5.4)

In 5.5 I see para 3 is spaced a little larger than para 1 but clearly not as wide as para 2.

In 5.4 para 3 is if anything a tad more widely spaced than para 2.

This observation holds for all 3 available fonts and across all font sizes.

So the new rendering engine in v5.5 of the kobo reader app is rendering differently, in the absence of para-specific line height declarations.

I will put this on MR forum in the hope of attracting more comment & more testers.

As an aside, FWIW, in the moon + reader on those 2 tablets, all 3 paragraphs display identically. That is good in one sense, all 3 paragraphs are very "readable" but it suggests that the moon reader app does not honour all original css, which is not a “feature” that I approve of

PS I cannot get my head around how the android OS on Kindle, which after all is mostly vanilla Android, would/could interfere with how text is rendered. surely the app has complete control over what appears on the screen, all that Android does is force the ugly pair of thick bars onto centre foot of screen display , so that there is an exit-full-screen-mode facility ( as another aside, it does not force those 2 bars into the kindle reader app display, the kindle is allowed 100% full screen - , but I see no way to stop it happening in moon reader, kobo reader... )

[cybmole]

update: thinking it though - it cannot be an artifact of Kindle O/S as I see what I call the "squashed" effect on kobo arc tablet. now just maybe what I call "squashed" is what other folks see as "normal", but there's a definite difference between this version and the previous one, for side loaded epubs like the test file I uploaded.

so I really would appreciate feedback from others with other devices. I claim that the previous version displayed as if a line height of about 150% / 1.5 em was in operation. And that the new update has shrunk that to around 130% / 1.3 .
I can't be putting explicit line height CSS back into all my books as that will over-ride the sliders when I use Aura HD; I want to keep my books as-is with all explicit line-height declarations removed.
IF anyone can tell me how to easily force a foll back on my kobo arc tablet, to v5.4, I will do that & report back on the impact. I guess that would involve turn off auto update, uninstall ( assuming Kobo tablet allows an uninstall of Kobo app!) then manually install my drop box backup of the older version. But I don't want to sacrifice having auto-update enabled for all other apps on that device so that's not a practical longer term solution.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by cybmole

the guy at android feedback is not seeing the issue either, so far. can you please view the attached test file which I just made & sent him, & tell us what you see.
My observations follow:
I put copies of this simple 3 paragraph test “book” onto my Kobo arc tablet ( running v5.5 of kobo reader) and onto my Kindle Fire HDX ( running v 5.4)

In 5.5 I see para 3 is spaced a little larger than para 1 but clearly not as wide as para 2.

In 5.4 para 3 is if anything a tad more widely spaced than para 2.

This observation holds for all 3 available fonts and across all font sizes.

So the new rendering engine in v5.5 of the kobo reader app is rendering differently, in the absence of para-specific line height declarations.

I will put this on MR forum in the hope of attracting more comment & more testers.

As an aside, FWIW, in the moon + reader on those 2 tablets, all 3 paragraphs display identically. That is good in one sense, all 3 paragraphs are very "readable" but it suggests that the moon reader app does not honour all original css, which is not a “feature” that I approve of

PS I cannot get my head around how the android OS on Kindle, which after all is mostly vanilla Android, would/could interfere with how text is rendered. surely the app has complete control over what appears on the screen, all that Android does is force the ugly pair of thick bars onto centre foot of screen display , so that there is an exit-full-screen-mode facility ( as another aside, it does not force those 2 bars into the kindle reader app display, the kindle is allowed 100% full screen - , but I see no way to stop it happening in moon reader, kobo reader... )

I modified your test epub slightly to give me 4 paragraphs. The 1st is set to 1.0em line height, the 2nd is set to 1.2em line height, the 3rd is set to 1.5em line height and the 4th is set with no fixed line height.

When I open the book in the latest version of the Kobo app -- I double checked with the PlayStore, paragraphs 3 and 4 have what appears to be the same line spacing while paragraph 1 and 2 have noticeably lower line spacings.

I've attached a screenshot of the test epub and the slightly modified version I used to generate the screenshot.

I double checked this on an HTC Android phone with the same results.

At this time, it does seem to be an conflict between the Kobo app and an unsupported OS.

Edit: Android version on the Nexus 7 is 4.4.4, on the HTC phone was 4.4.2.

Regards,
David

[cybmole]

well it gets stranger & stranger. what you see is exactly what Is ee in the older version, but NOT what I see now on my KObo arc. so how do I screen grab on that & how an we compare version numbers.
google store still says 6 august so I don't think anything has changed there ?
I've taken a photo of the open book on my kobo arc, PS there should only be 3 paragraphs in my test book unless you tweaked it ?

tablet-> settings -> apps tells me
kobo version 5.5.12333

do you have the same version ?

[cybmole]

-> davidfor

to reproduce my results you need to toggle OFF use kobo styling - ( which is confusingly located on the "brightness "icon , above the font size icon
with "us kobo styling" ON I get similar results to you, except for not having 4 paragraphs!
BUT I don't like having that opion enabled, it adds space between paragraphs and I don't like the look of that, I want to see what is defined in the book CSS only!

[Sharkus]

I do not believe it is possible to roll back the app as the Google Play Store, much like the iOS App Store, only allows you to obtain the latest version of the application.

As to the issue mentioned, thank you for the detailed feedback. We'll look at addressing the issues in future release of the application.

[cybmole]

well...
pleased that my concerns have been noted and validated...

but with Kobo android app releases happening only every 6 months or so, and no guarantee that it will ever be made to behave like the previous version, it looks like I need to find better android epub reader app.

luckily moon + reader pro is 50% off until tomorrow, and has lots of line-spacing control and font options... in fact it seems to do all that the Kobo app did & much more...

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by cybmole

well it gets stranger & stranger. what you see is exactly what Is ee in the older version, but NOT what I see now on my KObo arc. so how do I screen grab on that & how an we compare version numbers.
google store still says 6 august so I don't think anything has changed there ?
I've taken a photo of the open book on my kobo arc, PS there should only be 3 paragraphs in my test book unless you tweaked it ?

tablet-> settings -> apps tells me
kobo version 5.5.12333

do you have the same version ?

Kobo app version is the same. I added the 4th paragraph to give me 1.0, 1.2 and 1.5 em line heights as well as the unlocked paragraph.

Not sure if the Arc works the same but standard for screenshot with Android is to hold power and volume down for a couple of seconds.

I tried disabling Kobo styling and the 4th paragraph now seems to be around 1.3em line height. Still readable though I personally force 1.2em line height as part of default CSS stylesheet (along with interparagraph spacing and anything else that I can set -- a very boring style according to one friend of mine but then he's been into typography for more years than either of us care to recall).

Regards,
David

[cybmole]

1.2 is the most popular fixed line space i.e.that it the one I remove most!. but I much prefer a larger value. I'd had a few library book where I wondered " why does this layout look so good"? & getting under the bonnet I found that it was because a higher line spacing value was forced. You could dismiss that as a cheap publisher trick to up the page count, but I liked it! I think I then googled the topic & discovered that readablity tests suggested something in the 1.3 - 1.5 range. I'd be interested in reading more on that if you have good links,

So on my aura HD, I set my own, subjectively, with the sliders, having made sure that there's nothing left in the book CSS to prevent that.

And with the android app I was very happy with what it chose for me, until this week!.It used very similar layout logic to the native Kindle fire reader which I was comparing it to.

Because I have that wider setting, I no longer have any extra paragraph spacing, I started out in e-reading, way back, with adding 0.3 to my kindle books, then talked myself down to 0,.1 & now to 0. So I don't care for the "kobo styling" approach of adding space back in.

bu the moral(s) here are
1. and decent reader app should allow the user to set their own layout preferences

2. updates should not drastically change the reading experience, especially when that cannot be tweaked away and when there is no roll back to previous version option

Anyway moon + reader pro is looking good, I never did hear back from developer as to how to get my paid for play store version onto the kindle so I had to do it via the less ethical route after all. I googled & set up the colordict dictionary feature - simple on a google tablet - a pain on Kindle as the relevant bits were not in their app store, but I found what I needed eventually.
I recommend a study of its UI to the Kobo app designers, it shows you can have a lots of margin, line space... control + LOTS of fonts, configurable gestures and control bars, background colour themes, TTS..... { and most of that is even in the free version! ).

Apparently the inclusion of TTS is why it ( and other hi-spec epub readers) are not sold in Amazon store. Amazon have some contractual exclusivity thing going to protect audible, so nothing that offer TTS is allowed into their app store

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by cybmole

1.2 is the most popular fixed line space i.e.that it the one I remove most!. but I much prefer a larger value. I'd had a few library book where I wondered " why does this layout look so good"? & getting under the bonnet I found that it was because a higher line spacing value was forced. You could dismiss that as a cheap publisher trick to up the page count, but I liked it! I think I then googled the topic & discovered that readablity tests suggested something in the 1.3 - 1.5 range. I'd be interested in reading more on that if you have good links,

For me, it's that 1.2 is a comfortable reading setting, ascenders and descenders have a gap between them -- I find ebooks where they touch to be very annoying to read and ebooks where the setting is too high to be wasting screen space. I've seen the same 1.3 to 1.5 recommendation with one site quoting readability studies for websites showing that 1.48 is the best ratio.

Originally Posted by cybmole

So on my aura HD, I set my own, subjectively, with the sliders, having made sure that there's nothing left in the book CSS to prevent that.

Whereas I set the value in the CSS which lets me play with the slider in .kepub ebooks without messing up my much more common .epub ebooks.

Originally Posted by cybmole

And with the android app I was very happy with what it chose for me, until this week!.It used very similar layout logic to the native Kindle fire reader which I was comparing it to.

I seldom use the Kobo (or other ereading apps) on my Android or iOS devices. My Aura HD is the goto device for my entertainment reading. My work related ebooks are mainly PDF format network tech manuals and tend to have those lovely diagrams that are screaming for a large screen where my laptop or iPad Air are the goto devices -- at least until I can find a tablet with an A3 size screen that weighs about what the iPad Air does.

Originally Posted by cybmole

Because I have that wider setting, I no longer have any extra paragraph spacing, I started out in e-reading, way back, with adding 0.3 to my kindle books, then talked myself down to 0,.1 & now to 0. So I don't care for the "kobo styling" approach of adding space back in.

In contrast, I go for adding a fixed padding of 0.2em between paragraphs. The nice thing with ebooks for those who are willing to do some fiddling is that ability to change the formatting. My major criteria is to get as many lines on a page as I can without compromising readability.

Originally Posted by cybmole

bu the moral(s) here are
1. and decent reader app should allow the user to set their own layout preferences

2. updates should not drastically change the reading experience, especially when that cannot be tweaked away and when there is no roll back to previous version option

Anyway moon + reader pro is looking good, I never did hear back from developer as to how to get my paid for play store version onto the kindle so I had to do it via the less ethical route after all. I googled & set up the colordict dictionary feature - simple on a google tablet - a pain on Kindle as the relevant bits were not in their app store, but I found what I needed eventually.
I recommend a study of its UI to the Kobo app designers, it shows you can have a lots of margin, line space... control + LOTS of fonts, configurable gestures and control bars, background colour themes, TTS..... { and most of that is even in the free version! ).

Apparently the inclusion of TTS is why it ( and other hi-spec epub readers) are not sold in Amazon store. Amazon have some contractual exclusivity thing going to protect audible, so nothing that offer TTS is allowed into their app store

Hmmm... I tried Moon+ on my Nexus. I did not like that way it disregarded quite a bit of styling. Images with svg wrappers were not displayed properly, centerd chapter numbers were not centered, etc. I found that I preferred DLReader which at least made the attempt to correctly render the pages though Moon+ had the much nicer UI.

Your point 1 is not really arguable. Big Brother does not know better. As for point 2, I would agree with you but I realize that what I consider a major change may not be someone else's idea of a major change. The ability to roll back a firmware update is one of my pluses for the Kobo eInk ereaders especially given Kobo's inability to supply anything that even resembles a proper changelog.

One issue with TTS is that the publisher is supposed to able to choose whether or not to allow TTS and quite a few ereader apps totally disregard that setting. Personally, I can't see why I should not be able to have my ebook read to me though most of the TTS I've tried is not very listenable compared to a human reader. They've gotten a lot better over the decades but not quite there yet.

Regards,
David

[cybmole]

interesting response , thanks, & I see a scenario that i should maybe look into.

when I first bought the Aura HD, I was sending everything as plain epub, and that's where i found that I had to prevent the book settings from over-riding the device sliders.
Previous to that I was using Sony readers, which imposed their own view of what the line spacing should be, so it was never an issue!

But later I switched to using the excellent extended touch plug-in that sends everything from calibre to Kobo Aura as pseudo kepub. You are saying that for books sent like that, the sliders WILL overrule any fixed line space values in the book css ?

Moon + reader : yes I just found that some multi line headers don't centre on line 2 - which seems to be because of how <br> tags are handled. I've not seem any <svg image issues yet, but I mostly read fiction which does not use a lot of images, except for covers.

So for tablets, it seems to be a case of which app is the least annoying- & I cant stand how Kindle Fire kindle app adds every book back to carousel; plus having to convert to azw is an unwanted extra hassle.
I found, & complained but no joy, that because I have a workflow of

add original book to calibre -
then use epub conversion to create an original-epub backup,
then tweak the epub until it's how I want it;

I can't then convert that tweaked version to azw, because calibre will always use the original-epub as source, if it's there.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by cybmole

But later I switched to using the excellent extended touch plug-in that sends everything from calibre to Kobo Aura as pseudo kepub. You are saying that for books sent like that, the sliders WILL overrule any fixed line space values in the book css ?

No, simply that the only .kepub ebooks are those from Kobo, there aren't many of them and I haven't run into one that has fixed line heights yet.

Originally Posted by cybmole

Moon + reader : yes I just found that some multi line headers don't centre on line 2 - which seems to be because of how <br> tags are handled. I've not seem any <svg image issues yet, but I mostly read fiction which does not use a lot of images, except for covers.

I have a fair chunk of ebooks with illustrations/maps. I use the svg wrapper method to display them as close to full screen as possible with automatic resizing to fit the screen. Moon+ did not respect the svg wrapper which meant the image display looked like crud -- one example, a map would display using 25% of the screen area on my Nexus 7 instead of filling as much of the screen as possible while maintaining the aspect ratio. The other issue was with multiline chapter numbering where I would see something such as One centered, Meeting the Nephilim flush left and a vignette about 20% in from the left edge. DLReader and Kobo app both displayed the 3 lines happily centered.

Regards,
David

[cybmole]

i am now finding other reasons to prefer the Kobo app over the moon reader app after all. Moon does not seem to honor any font sizes within header tags. It has its own rules for how big a h2, h3... should be, apparently.
It also ignored the indent of a blockquote section of my current read, and also ignored a centred style for one line within that blockquote.
Dropcaps is probably going to be an issue also. I mostly remove those, but I noticed that for one book where I'd left large 1st letter of chapter styles in place, those 1st letters appeared way too large in moon, compared with in other renderers

so I'm thinking that any novel that uses lots of blockquotes - for styling signs, "letters" or extracts that appear within the narrative etc. is going to get mangled by moon reader

if I could find a complete list of what css moon ignores & why, that would be useful, but I doubt that it exists.

so probably I will revert to reading with KObo app on KIndle Fire HDX, using the previous version. I don't read on the KObo arc anyway, so not being able to roll back that version is not a showstopper, and i can use that tablet to assess the next aapp version , when/if it ever happens.

FYI the reasons I prefer my kindle HDX 8.9 to aura HD are: bigger screen, higher screen resolution, ability to go on-line for a dictionary or wikipedia lookup .
I keep wi-fi OFF on the Aura so that I can decide when/if to allow a firmware upgrade.

Although the Kindle is bigger, it is as light as the Aura to hold, and in portrait mode the kobo app allows its volume buttons to act as page turners which is handy for one-handed operation