ePub flavors becoming cumbersome?

[DiapDealer]

It seems to me that the "waters" of epub compatibility (including DRM-interoperability) are becoming more and more cumbersome to navigate.

I prefer to buy epubs. Not because of any Amazon hate (or love for another retailer), but because epub is easier to manipulate. I'm not a chronic tweaker, by any means, but I do like the easy option of being able to fix something atrociously wrong if/when I encounter them in my books. I also found a reading app that I prefer to all others (Mantano Pro) which allows me to read DRM-free epubs--as well as epubs with Adobe's "standard" ADEPT drm (B&N's drm too). Bases pretty well-covered, I think.

I buy quite a bit from Amazon as well (more so in the past), but unless they're drastically cheaper, I'm probably going to buy the epub at Kobo or B&N (why buy the whole cow and milk it when I can buy the milk pre-separated from the cow?)

Here's the cumbersome bit.

I went to buy a newly released book from Kobo (usually my first choice) and discovered that it's only available in Kobo's proprietary kepub format. Meaning I can't download the ascm, fullfill the purchase and load it on an Adobe registered device/app. Don't want that--don't have anything I can read it with (short of using the Kobo reading app that I don't want to use).

No problem, I'll head on over to B&N and buy the Nookbook. Which I do. Only to discover that it's full-blown ePub3. My reading app doesn't support epub3, so I can't read it unless I use the Nook app or a Nook device--I neither have nor want either of those things.

So now, since I already spent my money, I have to go to the trouble of changing the epub v3 into a v2 epub--or read it with an app that I find sub-optimal. If the simple act of removing the DRM solved the interoperability issues (like it used to do with epub), I'd have no beef. But now what? How do I determine if the ePub I want to buy is one that I can make immediate use of ... easily and quickly?

And how does a library loan an epub that's only commercially available as ePub3 or some proprietary epub variant?

Thanks for letting gripe about the fragmented (and getting worse) state of ePub.

If this belongs in the ePub subforum, so be it.

[rem736]

i think (not sure of this, though) that epub3 was designed with the capability of being backwards compatible with epub2, should the producer of the ebook adhere to the recommended practices. adhering, however, is totally another issue.

progression to epub3 is inevitable. it is based on html 5 with more advanced css support and other elements such as audio and video,though both audio and video is iffy given that most up to date e-ink readers are doing away with audio ports and we know that e-ink can't really handle video. it should work fine on non-e-ink tablets, however.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by rem736

progression to epub3 is inevitable. it is based on html 5 with more advanced css support...

Of course it is. I'd just prefer a progression which allows me to know which particular flavor of ePub I'm getting (before purchasing), so I know if my current setup can make use of it or not. ePub was supposed to unify, not fragment things further.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Of course it is. I'd just prefer a progression which allows me to know which particular flavor of ePub I'm getting (before purchasing), so I know if my current setup can make use of it or not. ePub was supposed to unify, not fragment things further.

If you mess with something enough, it'll break.

Schmidt's Law

http://murphyslaws.sanjeev.net/schmi...erent-schmidt/

[eschwartz]

One obvious solution is to just milk those AZW3s.

Nice and consistent.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

One obvious solution is to just milk those AZW3s.

Nice and consistent.

That's where this is all leading me, think.

I have no particular qualms about sticking exclusively with Amazon, but I do prefer to spread my business around a bit--unless the other businesses make it too difficult and/or ponderous for me to do so, that is.

[tomsem]

Try a sample first? Try Google (much better for price matching Amazon than B&N)?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rem736

i think (not sure of this, though) that epub3 was designed with the capability of being backwards compatible with epub2, should the producer of the ebook adhere to the recommended practices. adhering, however, is totally another issue.

progression to epub3 is inevitable. it is based on html 5 with more advanced css support and other elements such as audio and video,though both audio and video is iffy given that most up to date e-ink readers are doing away with audio ports and we know that e-ink can't really handle video. it should work fine on non-e-ink tablets, however.

I have seen some recent ePub that are trying to be ePub3 with backwards comparability with ePub2. But the really stupid thing is these ePub have no reason at all to be ePub3 as they don't offer anything that ePub2 doesn't. So why do it? Why bother to create ePub3 that's better off as ePub2?

I only found this out when I was editing one of them and managed to change something I thought was incorrect but turned out to be correct for ePub3.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Thanks for letting gripe about the fragmented (and getting worse) state of ePub.

I have not yet encountered problems with EPUB's I could not use, but I'm wary of this very same thing. EPUB is killing itself. It feels like a lot of open source projects: trying to do everything for everybody at the same time, run by a committee or community that can't make any final decisions on which course to take.

The one thing I hate regarding EPUB is that it's basically controlled by Adobe. It sometimes feels that half the media world is controlled by Adobe. After they switched Photoshop to a subscription-only model, I've abandoned them and actively hate, loath and avoid the company. Fortunately, I have nothing to do with them regarding EPUBs except for using ADE2 to get the books, and then the files will be un-DRM-ed.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's where this is all leading me, think.

I have no particular qualms about sticking exclusively with Amazon, but I do prefer to spread my business around a bit--unless the other businesses make it too difficult and/or ponderous for me to do so, that is.

Using Kobo codes and the ability to use both the US and UK store allows me to get books MUCH cheaper than at Amazon.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Using Kobo codes and the ability to use both the US and UK store allows me to get books MUCH cheaper than at Amazon.

Yes, but when the book you want is only available in their proprietary kepub format (a situation I'm encountering more and more often) you can't download the book using acsms and ADE. If you want to jump through a lot of awkward hoops (including installing kobo's reading app), you can still get a "usable" file. But even after all the hoop-jumping, it'll be the ugliest, non-valid epub (under the hood) you've ever seen.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Yes, but when the book you want is only available in their proprietary kepub format (a situation I'm encountering more and more often) you can't download the book using acsms and ADE. If you want to jump through a lot of awkward hoops (including installing kobo's reading app), you can still get a "usable" file. But even after all the hoop-jumping, it'll be the ugliest, non-valid epub (under the hood) you've ever seen.

That's true, and if that is going to happen, without me being able to check the format before buying the book, I'll definitely switch to a different EPUB retailer (such as ebooks.com or Feedbooks.com), or to Amazon. Quite frankly, it's ironic that Amazon AZW3, which 'officially' is not an EPUB can be a better EPUB than Kobo's KEPUB.

[AnemicOak]

The Modify ePub Calibre plug-in (modded by Rev. Bob) with it's "strip Kobo DRM remnants" option really helps clean up kePub's after they've been obok'd, but I agree kePub only stuff at Kobo sucks.

[jandrew]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Yes, but when the book you want is only available in their proprietary kepub format (a situation I'm encountering more and more often) you can't download the book using acsms and ADE. If you want to jump through a lot of awkward hoops (including installing kobo's reading app), you can still get a "usable" file. But even after all the hoop-jumping, it'll be the ugliest, non-valid epub (under the hood) you've ever seen.

I don't know, when I think about it, it doesn't seem to me that it takes any more hoop jumping to backup a kepub into Calibre than to backup an Adobe DRM epub into Calibre. Both require getting and installing some additional software in the first place, and then about the same number of steps for each book. The biggest hoop, for me, is that Kobo desktop doesn't want to sync under linux/wine, so I need to remember to process any kepubs for backup on the rare occasions I boot my windows partition (but then it has been pretty rare that I've bought a book that was kepub-only anyway).

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by jandrew

I don't know, when I think about it, it doesn't seem to me that it takes any more hoop jumping to backup a kepub into Calibre than to backup an Adobe DRM epub into Calibre. Both require getting and installing some additional software in the first place, and then about the same number of steps for each book. The biggest hoop, for me, is that Kobo desktop doesn't want to sync under linux/wine, so I need to remember to process any kepubs for backup on the rare occasions I boot my windows partition (but then it has been pretty rare that I've bought a book that was kepub-only anyway).

It used to be that you only needed ADE. Now you need both (because Kobo is being stupid) which equals more software bloat.

Also, there is the Kobo-specific markup for people who feel the need to mess around under the hood.