Any way to read PDF properly?

Kudalufi · 03-16-2014, 10:31 AM

I am having a very frustrating time trying to read a book in PDF format. The built-in pdf viewer zooms and rotates to landscape nicely, but when you advance while zoomed to width, it advances a full page, not to the next unread portion. And this wouldn't be so bad if it didn't advance to the next page at the same location as you were on the previous. So I read the top part of the page, finger swipe to the bottom, read that, then advance and have to scroll the page back to the top.

Is there really no way you can, like in Adobe Reader, advance the page and have it figure out that you don't actually want the next full page until and unless you are at the bottom of the current one? I keep thinking there must be something I'm not doing right, because the behaviour I'm seeing is so mind-bogglingly unintuitive.

[edit] It's even worse - in portrait it seems to always advance a page to the next page at the top. In landscape, it seems to always advance to the next page at the bottom of the page. So in portrait I can't zoom to eliminate margins and have it stay zoomed on that part of the page. In landscape I can't have it flip to the top of the next page. Worst of both worlds. Someone please tell me I'm crazy and there is some sort of configuration to make PDF viewing sane.

hoichi · 03-16-2014, 11:38 AM

I personally don't find the process too unintuitive, in the portrait mode at least. Landscape mode is definitely worse.
That said, you could try Briss to cut your pages to screen-sized chunks. I'm yet to try it myself though.

arspr · 03-16-2014, 03:51 PM

Yes, in landscape is still "broken" but it used to be worse till 3.2.0

Nevertheless, it could be clearly improved. The easiest way: instead of going to the upper left corner:
+ Keeping the horizontal position. So if you had zoomed to "kill" the margins you would not need to pan the new page in order to "center" your text again on each page turn.
+ Instead of always, (I mean when fixed in landscape of course), going to the upper part of the new page, only doing that when advancing to the next page. When returning to the previous one the logical position is the bottom of the page.

Easy changes but I seriously doubt about Kobo crew...

hoichi · 03-16-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arspr

Nevertheless, it could be clearly improved. The easiest way: instead of going to the upper left corner:
+ Keeping the horizontal position. So if you had zoomed to "kill" the margins you would not need to pan the new page in order to "center" your text again on each page turn.
+ Instead of always, (I mean when fixed in landscape of course), going to the upper part of the new page, only doing that when advancing to the next page. When returning to the previous one the logical position is the bottom of the page.

Easy changes but I seriously doubt about Kobo crew...

Yeah, your suggestions make sense. Actually I think panning on the Aura HD is pretty fluid for an e-reader, but little improvement would go a long way. For instance, I read screenplays in PDFs at exactly 150% zoom: that ratio is one tap away and anything smaller would make the text hard to read. Which is all very fine, but at that zoom the text barely fits so I have to be very precise every time I pan a page. Keeping horizontal pan would definitely help.

I wonder if that's been posted to the firmware suggestions thread.

TechniSol · 03-16-2014, 10:06 PM

It seems like a zoom lock or an automatic white space or margin reduction mode, possibly both coupled, would be very helpful. Further, if in the zoom lock or auto mode and the entire page content is not rendered then a page turn should then pan to reveal the next unviewed portion.

It isn't probably a whole lot of logic to add, but I wouldn't hold my breath unless I really liked the color blue.

That said, have you tried conversions to other formats through Calibre? I did one that came out great a while back, but don't deal with PDFs very often on my Kobo -mostly view them on tablets.

hoichi · 03-17-2014, 03:40 AM

PDF is a tough format to parse. Hard breaks everywhere, headers and footers are part of the text as well etc. etc. I haven't seen anything good come of messing with it, neither by Calibre conversion, nor by KOReader reflow (yes, I know KOReader is still deep in alpha).
Besides, there are reasons why some things are in PDFs. Some are just pictures, scanned but not OCRed. Other, like screenplays, have very specific formatting that is lost in conversion (I guess it's technically possible to make a screenplay that looks like one in ePub, so probably the hardest part would be parsing the PDF once again).

arspr · 03-17-2014, 05:38 AM

Yes, I was going to say something like hoichi. Technical and popular science books are usually in pdf format as they contain lots of graphs in them in different relative positions through the text and therefore a fixed layout format is "easier" to use as publisher than an "adaptative" one like epub.

TechniSol · 03-17-2014, 10:11 PM

Great points, and I do understand. I guess it probably should be said that the reason I use a tablet for most PDFs I encounter is that they're usually designed to be viewed or printed at a larger size, so the larger display works better, even rotated to landscape and scrolled. So, if you guys get all that, why are you trying to turn a torx fastener with a pipe wrench? The first rule of being a craftsman is to always use the right tool for the job... or at least do it where no one is looking over your shoulder. ;-)

hoichi · 03-18-2014, 03:17 AM

I know that a 10 inch tablet would be better for PDFs, but I find my Aura HD, with its slightly bigger screen and visibly higher resolution, much more workable for the PDFs I have than my previous Nook ST. Of course in some of the cases the font is still smaller than I'd like, and if had more PDFs, with finer print and maybe more elaborate layout, I'd think about a tablet. As it is, the bulk of my reading being (K)ePubs, I'm happy to deal with an occasional drywall screw with a butterknife

03-16-2014, 10:31 AM	#1
Kudalufi Member Posts: 15 Karma: 22 Join Date: Aug 2012 Device: Android	Any way to read PDF properly? I am having a very frustrating time trying to read a book in PDF format. The built-in pdf viewer zooms and rotates to landscape nicely, but when you advance while zoomed to width, it advances a full page, not to the next unread portion. And this wouldn't be so bad if it didn't advance to the next page at the same location as you were on the previous. So I read the top part of the page, finger swipe to the bottom, read that, then advance and have to scroll the page back to the top. Is there really no way you can, like in Adobe Reader, advance the page and have it figure out that you don't actually want the next full page until and unless you are at the bottom of the current one? I keep thinking there must be something I'm not doing right, because the behaviour I'm seeing is so mind-bogglingly unintuitive. [edit] It's even worse - in portrait it seems to always advance a page to the next page at the top. In landscape, it seems to always advance to the next page at the bottom of the page. So in portrait I can't zoom to eliminate margins and have it stay zoomed on that part of the page. In landscape I can't have it flip to the top of the next page. Worst of both worlds. Someone please tell me I'm crazy and there is some sort of configuration to make PDF viewing sane. Last edited by Kudalufi; 03-16-2014 at 10:40 AM.

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03-16-2014, 11:38 AM	#2
hoichi male solipsist pig Posts: 102 Karma: 440818 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Device: Nook Simple Touch→Kobo Aura HD	I personally don't find the process too unintuitive, in the portrait mode at least. Landscape mode is definitely worse. That said, you could try Briss to cut your pages to screen-sized chunks. I'm yet to try it myself though.

03-16-2014, 03:51 PM	#3
arspr Dead account. Bye Posts: 587 Karma: 668244 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: none	Yes, in landscape is still "broken" but it used to be worse till 3.2.0 Nevertheless, it could be clearly improved. The easiest way: instead of going to the upper left corner: + Keeping the horizontal position. So if you had zoomed to "kill" the margins you would not need to pan the new page in order to "center" your text again on each page turn. + Instead of always, (I mean when fixed in landscape of course), going to the upper part of the new page, only doing that when advancing to the next page. When returning to the previous one the logical position is the bottom of the page. Easy changes but I seriously doubt about Kobo crew...

03-16-2014, 10:06 PM	#5
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	It seems like a zoom lock or an automatic white space or margin reduction mode, possibly both coupled, would be very helpful. Further, if in the zoom lock or auto mode and the entire page content is not rendered then a page turn should then pan to reveal the next unviewed portion. It isn't probably a whole lot of logic to add, but I wouldn't hold my breath unless I really liked the color blue. That said, have you tried conversions to other formats through Calibre? I did one that came out great a while back, but don't deal with PDFs very often on my Kobo -mostly view them on tablets.

03-17-2014, 03:40 AM	#6
hoichi male solipsist pig Posts: 102 Karma: 440818 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Device: Nook Simple Touch→Kobo Aura HD	PDF is a tough format to parse. Hard breaks everywhere, headers and footers are part of the text as well etc. etc. I haven't seen anything good come of messing with it, neither by Calibre conversion, nor by KOReader reflow (yes, I know KOReader is still deep in alpha). Besides, there are reasons why some things are in PDFs. Some are just pictures, scanned but not OCRed. Other, like screenplays, have very specific formatting that is lost in conversion (I guess it's technically possible to make a screenplay that looks like one in ePub, so probably the hardest part would be parsing the PDF once again).

03-17-2014, 05:38 AM	#7
arspr Dead account. Bye Posts: 587 Karma: 668244 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: none	Yes, I was going to say something like hoichi. Technical and popular science books are usually in pdf format as they contain lots of graphs in them in different relative positions through the text and therefore a fixed layout format is "easier" to use as publisher than an "adaptative" one like epub.

03-17-2014, 10:11 PM	#8
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	Great points, and I do understand. I guess it probably should be said that the reason I use a tablet for most PDFs I encounter is that they're usually designed to be viewed or printed at a larger size, so the larger display works better, even rotated to landscape and scrolled. So, if you guys get all that, why are you trying to turn a torx fastener with a pipe wrench? The first rule of being a craftsman is to always use the right tool for the job... or at least do it where no one is looking over your shoulder. ;-)

03-18-2014, 03:17 AM	#9
hoichi male solipsist pig Posts: 102 Karma: 440818 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Device: Nook Simple Touch→Kobo Aura HD	I know that a 10 inch tablet would be better for PDFs, but I find my Aura HD, with its slightly bigger screen and visibly higher resolution, much more workable for the PDFs I have than my previous Nook ST. Of course in some of the cases the font is still smaller than I'd like, and if had more PDFs, with finer print and maybe more elaborate layout, I'd think about a tablet. As it is, the bulk of my reading being (K)ePubs, I'm happy to deal with an occasional drywall screw with a butterknife

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