Bottom margin & Conversion

Chris_Snow · 10-28-2013, 03:46 AM

Greetings,

I wasn't quite sure where to place this post.

I have a Kobo Glo. I've noticed that the text in an ebook doesn't always get close to the bottom of the page. I realise the s/w probably keeps a small space so the page numbers can display, but some ebooks have quite a space while others gets reasonably close to the page numbers.

What controls this. Is it a stylesheet.css setting or the margins in the page_styles.css..or somewhere else??

I've noticed that in some ebooks, one page will have a space, then the next page will be closer to the page numbers - even though it is a continuation of the paragraph. Why is this?

I appreciate the help. Thx

ShellShock · 10-28-2013, 05:37 AM

It is mainly due to hard coded styling in the Kobo firmware. Fortunately, someone has worked out how to hack the styling, and other things - please see here https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=220171.

davidfor · 10-28-2013, 06:42 AM

BetterRed has pointed to a way to minimize the space wasted. But, it is a hack that you might not be willing to do, and it doesn't solve all the problems.

The unused space due to a few reasons:

- The reader shows the page number at the bottom. There is also a margin above that. If you tap the centre of the screen, the menus are displayed and there is a line across the bottom of the screen. This is the bottom of the text area. The patcher linked to above can reduce this space.

- The reader will not overlap text with the above line. Exactly how close the text gets depends on the font, font size, line spacing and exactly what is on the screen. Sometimes it seems like a lot of space is wasted, but displaying the line mentioned frequently shows it isn't a full line.

- Lastly, there are widows and orphans. A widow is when the first line of a paragraph is left at the bottom of the screen and an orphan is the last line at the start of the next. This can be controlled in CSS and the default for both is 2 and Kobo seems to use this default. This means there will frequently be space at the bottom of the screen to prevent the widows and orphans.

The widows and orphans can be solved in the CSS of the book. Adding "widows: 1; orphans: 1" to the body and/or paragraph styles will solve this. This can be done by editing the book. The KoboTouch driver has a way to add this automatically during a send. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=192863. Or, if you are using kepubs, there is CSS file that will get loaded. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=218814.

ShellShock · 10-28-2013, 08:27 AM

I always set widows and orphans to 0. Is there an advantage to setting them to 1?

davidfor · 10-28-2013, 10:34 PM

As far as I can tell, no. But, I haven't had a real play to see.

BetterRed · 10-29-2013, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

BetterRed has pointed to a way to minimize the space wasted. But, it is a hack that you might not be willing to do, and it doesn't solve all the problems.

Eh, when & where did I do that davidfor - I wouldn't know a Kobo Glo from a painting by Vincent van Gogh

BR

davidfor · 10-29-2013, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Eh, when & where did I do that davidfor - I wouldn't know a Kobo Glo from a painting by Vincent van Gogh

Whoops. Now, the question is, which one of you did I insult the most?

Chris_Snow · 10-29-2013, 03:10 AM

Thx very muchly for all the comments. I knew there would be an explanation. I did know about the widows/orphans - read here on this site I think. I set mine also to "0" and it's added as a conversion via calibre.

I rarely have a problem now, but I still see an occasional strange space, or single line on the next page.

Not sure I want to play with the firmware to get it better. I can live with it. Maybe Kobo will rectify it one day - but then again, I've seen more flying pigs!

I exclusively use epubs and am slowly getting to grips with sigil. I'll never be an expert

I really wasn't prepared for how inconsistent ebooks are when I brought my Kobo

Thx again for the help.

ShellShock · 10-29-2013, 05:17 AM

I have given up on Kobo ever doing anything about this...strange because a "full screen reading mode" would make some of their customers very happy. They obviously have more important fish to fry, like all those social media link ups I have absolutely no interest in.

10-28-2013, 03:46 AM	#1
Chris_Snow Zealot Posts: 148 Karma: 8170 Join Date: Jul 2013 Device: kobo glo	Bottom margin & Conversion Greetings, I wasn't quite sure where to place this post. I have a Kobo Glo. I've noticed that the text in an ebook doesn't always get close to the bottom of the page. I realise the s/w probably keeps a small space so the page numbers can display, but some ebooks have quite a space while others gets reasonably close to the page numbers. What controls this. Is it a stylesheet.css setting or the margins in the page_styles.css..or somewhere else?? I've noticed that in some ebooks, one page will have a space, then the next page will be closer to the page numbers - even though it is a continuation of the paragraph. Why is this? I appreciate the help. Thx

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10-28-2013, 05:37 AM	#2
ShellShock Wizard Posts: 1,178 Karma: 2431850 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: IPad Mini 2 Retina	It is mainly due to hard coded styling in the Kobo firmware. Fortunately, someone has worked out how to hack the styling, and other things - please see here https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=220171.

10-28-2013, 06:42 AM	#3
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303824 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	BetterRed has pointed to a way to minimize the space wasted. But, it is a hack that you might not be willing to do, and it doesn't solve all the problems. The unused space due to a few reasons: - The reader shows the page number at the bottom. There is also a margin above that. If you tap the centre of the screen, the menus are displayed and there is a line across the bottom of the screen. This is the bottom of the text area. The patcher linked to above can reduce this space. - The reader will not overlap text with the above line. Exactly how close the text gets depends on the font, font size, line spacing and exactly what is on the screen. Sometimes it seems like a lot of space is wasted, but displaying the line mentioned frequently shows it isn't a full line. - Lastly, there are widows and orphans. A widow is when the first line of a paragraph is left at the bottom of the screen and an orphan is the last line at the start of the next. This can be controlled in CSS and the default for both is 2 and Kobo seems to use this default. This means there will frequently be space at the bottom of the screen to prevent the widows and orphans. The widows and orphans can be solved in the CSS of the book. Adding "widows: 1; orphans: 1" to the body and/or paragraph styles will solve this. This can be done by editing the book. The KoboTouch driver has a way to add this automatically during a send. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=192863. Or, if you are using kepubs, there is CSS file that will get loaded. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=218814.

10-28-2013, 08:27 AM	#4
ShellShock Wizard Posts: 1,178 Karma: 2431850 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: IPad Mini 2 Retina	I always set widows and orphans to 0. Is there an advantage to setting them to 1?

10-28-2013, 10:34 PM	#5
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303824 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	As far as I can tell, no. But, I haven't had a real play to see.

10-29-2013, 03:10 AM	#8
Chris_Snow Zealot Posts: 148 Karma: 8170 Join Date: Jul 2013 Device: kobo glo	Thx very muchly for all the comments. I knew there would be an explanation. I did know about the widows/orphans - read here on this site I think. I set mine also to "0" and it's added as a conversion via calibre. I rarely have a problem now, but I still see an occasional strange space, or single line on the next page. Not sure I want to play with the firmware to get it better. I can live with it. Maybe Kobo will rectify it one day - but then again, I've seen more flying pigs! I exclusively use epubs and am slowly getting to grips with sigil. I'll never be an expert I really wasn't prepared for how inconsistent ebooks are when I brought my Kobo Thx again for the help.

10-29-2013, 05:17 AM	#9
ShellShock Wizard Posts: 1,178 Karma: 2431850 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: IPad Mini 2 Retina	I have given up on Kobo ever doing anything about this...strange because a "full screen reading mode" would make some of their customers very happy. They obviously have more important fish to fry, like all those social media link ups I have absolutely no interest in.

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