Subtitle in epub metadata?

[srascal]

Does anyone know how to include subtitle information in the metadata? I followed IDPF's specs exactly and put this in my opf file (real book title not shown):

<dc:title id="t1">A Dictionary of Modern English Usage</dc:title>
<meta refines="#t1" property="title-type">main</meta>

<dc:title id="t2">First Edition</dc:title>
<meta refines="#t2" property="title-type">edition</meta>

However, IDPF's own validator found this meta to be an error, showing this error message:

ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(5,45): attribute "refines" not allowed here; expected attribute "content", "id", "name", "scheme" or "xml:lang"
ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(5,45): attribute "property" not allowed here; expected attribute "content", "id", "name", "scheme" or "xml:lang"
ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(5,45): element "meta" missing required attributes "content" and "name"
ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(5,51): text not allowed here; expected the element end-tag
ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(7,45): attribute "refines" not allowed here; expected attribute "content", "id", "name", "scheme" or "xml:lang"
ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(7,45): attribute "property" not allowed here; expected attribute "content", "id", "name", "scheme" or "xml:lang"
ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(7,45): element "meta" missing required attributes "content" and "name"
ERROR: book.epub/OEBPS/content.opf(7,55): text not allowed here; expected the element end-tag

Before inserting the above title-type metadata, my epub (and opf and it's metadata) had absolutely zero problems passing the inspector.

Source of IDPF code: http://www.idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epu...-20111011.html

Thanks for any insight you can offer. Amy

[SusanM]

Note that what you are reading is a draft on suggested developments in EPUB3 and are not standard at present. The validator is only what is established. I would suggest just using the standard metadata so that the file passes validation

Required
dc:title
dc:identifier
dc:language
dc:creator
dc:date
dc: publisher

Optional:
<dc:subject />
<dc:description />
<dc:rights />
<dc:subject />
<dc:description />
<dc:source />



Top of the document says
"A diff of changes from the previous draft is available at this link.
Please refer to the errata for this document, which may include some normative corrections. "

[srascal]

Hmm. I did not notice that there were different versions of the Recommended Specifications. That being said, I clicked on the most current version of the Specs, but the exact same title-type info was listed.

In the end, I did what you suggested: ditched the extra metadata fields and used the standard ones so that I could pass validation.

[mzmm]

i think that <meta> tags with the 'refines' attribute were only introduced in epub3, and that the only dublin:core tags that allowed attributes (specifically the 'role' attribute) were the 'creator' and 'contributor' tags (i.e., <dc:creator opf:role="aut"... <dc:contributor opf:role="dsr"... ).

so basically, in epub2, you can't use <meta refines... for a subtitle, and you can't have a second <dc:title/> element with the attribute opf:role="subtitle".

it seems like part of the reason the idpf is introducing the meta tags to refine roles in epub3 is actually that people/publishers were complaining that they couldn't include subtitles in the metadata.

https://code.google.com/p/epub-revis...d_Subtitles_(A)

[AlPe]

Originally Posted by mzmm

i think that <meta> tags with the 'refines' attribute were only introduced in epub3, and that the only dublin:core tags that allowed attributes (specifically the 'role' attribute) were the 'creator' and 'contributor' tags (i.e., <dc:creator opf:role="aut"... <dc:contributor opf:role="dsr"... ).

so basically, in epub2, you can't use <meta refines... for a subtitle, and you can't have a second <dc:title/> element with the attribute opf:role="subtitle".

it seems like part of the reason the idpf is introducing the meta tags to refine roles in epub3 is actually that people/publishers were complaining that they couldn't include subtitles in the metadata.

https://code.google.com/p/epub-revis...d_Subtitles_(A)

All correct.

I just want to add: unfortunately, as discussed either on IDPF forum or on Twitter w/ tech guys of IDPF (I do not remember exactly), support for these "extended" metadata is scarce and often conflicting between different Reading Systems. So, once again, you might want to stay on the "conservative" side, and use DC metadata elements that were already supported in EPUB 2.

[curiousgeorge]

it appears that your meta is for an epub 3.0 file and the validation tool you're using only validates up to 2.0. This is an example of why many companies will not take full epub 3.0 files. You can implement certain epub 3.0 criterias but coding fully for epub 3.0 will not be backwards compatible and will render your epub invalid.

[SusanM]

Originally Posted by mzmm

i think that <meta> tags with the 'refines' attribute were only introduced in epub3, and that the only dublin:core tags that allowed attributes (specifically the 'role' attribute) were the 'creator' and 'contributor' tags (i.e., <dc:creator opf:role="aut"... <dc:contributor opf:role="dsr"... ).

so basically, in epub2, you can't use <meta refines... for a subtitle, and you can't have a second <dc:title/> element with the attribute opf:role="subtitle".

it seems like part of the reason the idpf is introducing the meta tags to refine roles in epub3 is actually that people/publishers were complaining that they couldn't include subtitles in the metadata.

https://code.google.com/p/epub-revis...d_Subtitles_(A)

I think that is the case as well. Metadata is a mess at EPUB2 did not allow subtitles, editions, etc. People were just adding on to the title with a colon and then the subtitle. And Alpie is right that they are trying to add this in for EPUB3 which should have been done long ago.

[SusanM]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge

it appears that your meta is for an epub 3.0 file and the validation tool you're using only validates up to 2.0. This is an example of why many companies will not take full epub 3.0 files. You can implement certain epub 3.0 criterias but coding fully for epub 3.0 will not be backwards compatible and will render your epub invalid.

The validator that srascal is using is the current standard and is for the current standards for EPUB2/EPUB3. Blue Griffin has a more advanced validator for EPUB3 only at http://www.bluegriffon-epubedition.com/BGEV.html but it is not free. I have no idea if this one validates the code below and even if it does, whether retailers would accept it as many of the readers accept only partial ePub3 formatting.

<dc:title id="t1">A Dictionary of Modern English Usage</dc:title>
<meta refines="#t1" property="title-type">main</meta>
<dc:title id="t2">First Edition</dc:title>
<meta refines="#t2" property="title-type">edition</meta>

The above does not validate in IDPF's own validator.

[SusanM]

Originally Posted by srascal

Hmm. I did not notice that there were different versions of the Recommended Specifications. That being said, I clicked on the most current version of the Specs, but the exact same title-type info was listed.

In the end, I did what you suggested: ditched the extra metadata fields and used the standard ones so that I could pass validation.

Glad that it worked out, srascal.

[curiousgeorge]

Originally Posted by SusanM

The validator that srascal is using is the current standard and is for the current standards for EPUB2/EPUB3. Blue Griffin has a more advanced validator for EPUB3 only at http://www.bluegriffon-epubedition.com/BGEV.html but it is not free. I have no idea if this one validates the code below and even if it does, whether retailers would accept it as many of the readers accept only partial ePub3 formatting.

<dc:title id="t1">A Dictionary of Modern English Usage</dc:title>
<meta refines="#t1" property="title-type">main</meta>
<dc:title id="t2">First Edition</dc:title>
<meta refines="#t2" property="title-type">edition</meta>

The above does not validate in IDPF's own validator.

doesnt matter what validator HE uses.. If an e-retailer says your file is invalid that's what it is and I'm telling you I know four off the top that will not except his epub because of the epub 3.0 metadata. Not trying to be rude but thats just how this business works. They would rather be backwards compatible than updated on current validation and because of that they do not use updated validation till it is solid and not in what they consider as beta. I see no reason to go with Blue Griffin because there are many free solutions out there and with only validatoning to 3.0 spec will prevent your content from reaching many retailers.

[SusanM]

You're not being rude. I am agreeing with you. That being said, you can distribute your books without going through the major retailers and in that case you can add the enhanced metadata as you wish. For example, the University of Adelaide eBooks have extensive metadata, but since they don't distribute through retailers they can do as they please.

[curiousgeorge]

Originally Posted by SusanM

You're not being rude. I am agreeing with you. That being said, you can distribute your books without going through the major retailers and in that case you can add the enhanced metadata as you wish. For example, the University of Adelaide eBooks have extensive metadata, but since they don't distribute through retailers they can do as they please.

but why would you not build your epub to go to everyone. A major retailer is a major retailer for a reason and the ones that allow your content also allow content that is invalid and corrupt which pushes away from customers buying from them. I understand what you're trying to say but by doing it that way you are hurting yourself, sales, and profit.

[dgatwood]

The general consensus, at least in the academic world, is that because Dublin Core doesn't define support for subtitles, you should shove everything into the title, separated by a space, a colon, and another space, e.g.

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland : A Thrilling Adventure of Psychoactive Substance Abuse

I definitely would not try to use EPUB3 functionality at this time. Give it a few years for it to gain more acceptance/support by reader vendors.

[SusanM]

Originally Posted by dgatwood

The general consensus, at least in the academic world, is that because Dublin Core doesn't define support for subtitles, you should shove everything into the title, separated by a space, a colon, and another space, e.g.

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland : A Thrilling Adventure of Psychoactive Substance Abuse

I definitely would not try to use EPUB3 functionality at this time. Give it a few years for it to gain more acceptance/support by reader vendors.

I agree. All of the designers are going gung-ho on EPUB3 so I think that more readers do accept them. Marvin reader for iPad doesn't. I did find that some of the readers I used would read the EPUB3 file if it had backward compatibility - a few months ago they would not read those at all. One designer said she just received a large quantity of EPUBS to convert to EPUB3 so I wonder if they are just directing them to a specific sellers or feel that a "hybrid" should work in most readers. Anyone? Thanks for the clarification about subtitles.

[SusanM]

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge

but why would you not build your epub to go to everyone. A major retailer is a major retailer for a reason and the ones that allow your content also allow content that is invalid and corrupt which pushes away from customers buying from them. I understand what you're trying to say but by doing it that way you are hurting yourself, sales, and profit.

Well, their ePubs can go to everyone as they are free. I should have mentioned that I meant the public domain titles they do. They put extensive metadata in those which is a good practice, but alas one that does not validate. Since they distribute these themselves and not to Apple, etc. it doesn't matter that that validation throws up an error. http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/