Paperwhite missing Page Numbers..frustration

Nicky_oz · 11-07-2012, 03:50 PM

I've searched for hours on this. The best I can find is that some books do and some don't, and you have to tap the menu on top to find the page number. If your book has it?
is it really this primitive? when it has something as useless as a location which is only good for other Kindles, and time to read and whatever other rubbish.. why take away page numbers.

Both books I've got on the PW are bought directly from Amazon and were downloaded wirelessly via the cloud, on wifi.

Does anyone have any solutions? I'm happy to try anything. I just find the absence of page numbers really frustrating. Real or not, it's such a stupid basic thing to take away..

susan_cassidy · 11-07-2012, 04:01 PM

It wasn't taken away, page numbers were only added relatively recently. If the book has them, they will display when you tap the menu. If not, then not.

Page numbers are only useful if you are in a book club or something where you need to refer to paper edition page numbers. Locations are much more accurate.

ETA: some ereaders have calculated page numbers that are just made up. So, they don't help if you are referring to a paper edition.

vxf · 11-07-2012, 04:04 PM

My understanding of the issue is the same as yours, Nicky. I also share your frustration. Why could they put page numbers in there when you access the menu, but not while reading, is beyond me. It's not a huge deal, as far as I am concerned. But it's frustrating in its utter stupidity.

Nicky_oz · 11-07-2012, 04:09 PM

Thank you for your reply Susan.
On two other kindles in my house keyboard 3rd gens i think they are, page numbers display on all books, mostly side-loaded.

I don't find locations useful at all, actually I find them completely pointless. The number is meaningless to me and to anyone else that would pick up my kindle to see how far I am through a book.

I also don't understand under what intelligent design principle someone would put page numbers on top of a menu that needs to be tapped.

I work in engineering R&D and actually write documentation, so I feel quite knowledgable in user experience and documents, and I find this so frustrating. Same with a missing table of contents! to not have access to a book's table of contents you rightly purchased that has TOCs (I saw it on my sisters kindle) is just ridiculous.

If it wasn't for the nice screen and the fact my Nook first Gen is running out of juice, I'd return this lovely paperwhite.

Nicky_oz · 11-07-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vxf

My understanding of the issue is the same as yours, Nicky. I also share your frustration. Why could they put page numbers in there when you access the menu, but not while reading, is beyond me. It's not a huge deal, as far as I am concerned. But it's frustrating in its utter stupidity.

Thank you, exactly it is frustrating in its utter stupidity, could not have said it better myself.

Amazon I hope you're reading

shanghaichica · 11-07-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

It wasn't taken away, page numbers were only added relatively recently. If the book has them, they will display when you tap the menu. If not, then not.

Page numbers are only useful if you are in a book club or something where you need to refer to paper edition page numbers. Locations are much more accurate.

ETA: some ereaders have calculated page numbers that are just made up. So, they don't help if you are referring to a paper edition.

I do prefer locations, I didn't realise how much until recently when I used the Kobo glo. The epubs had page numbers but I found myself wondering what they really meant to me after using the kindle for 3 years.

susan_cassidy · 11-07-2012, 04:14 PM

Page numbers only display on side-loaded materials if you have run them through Calibre and generated page numbers. So, they are artificial page numbers, not related to a paper edition.

A missing table of contents is a book formatting issue, and should be addressed to the publisher, not Amazon.

vxf · 11-07-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

Page numbers only display on side-loaded materials if you have run them through Calibre and generated page numbers. So, they are artificial page numbers, not related to a paper edition.

A missing table of contents is a book formatting issue, and should be addressed to the publisher, not Amazon.

That is not the only case in which you get page numbers.

The first book I looked at on my PW: Narcopolis, by Jeet Thayil - has page numbers. Bought from Kindle's story.

pidgeon92 · 11-07-2012, 05:29 PM

I prefer locations as well. Having read a few hundred books on my Kindles in the last few years, I now have a sense of how long a book is by looking at the locations. The principle is just the same, it's just a different unit of measure.

shanghaichica · 11-07-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

I prefer locations as well. Having read a few hundred books on my Kindles in the last few years, I now have a sense of how long a book is by looking at the locations. The principle is just the same, it's just a different unit of measure.

This. When I read an epub a few weeks ago I looked at the page numbers and had no idea how long the book was, or how I was progressing through it on day a day to day basis.

tomsem · 11-07-2012, 08:36 PM

Whatever their usefulness in terms of citations or book club references, page numbers are pretty unreliable measures of reading progress, whether in ebooks or print books. Even when they refer to a specific print edition, you can have a 300 page book with larger type on smaller pages or you can have 300 pages of smaller type on bigger pages, each dramatically different in terms of reading time.

The Paperwhite's 'm hrs n mins left in chapter/book' feature is a worthy attempt to solve 'the reading progress problem.' It is dynamic and adjusts to the type of reading you are doing.

Perhaps the toggled options could have included one for 'page m/n' for books with page numbers, but then we are back to a measure that only represents a relative measure of progress like % complete, and not one that tells you anything particularly useful about reading progress.

vxf · 11-07-2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsem

Perhaps the toggled options could have included one for 'page m/n' for books with page numbers

THAT!

No, really, I get it, page numbers are not perfect.
Now, I'd like my page numbers back.
Location... ya... I'll pass.
Time to completion works in some cases. First, it's good ex-post, but it tells me nothing about how long a book is going to be before I start reading it. Second, it's not reliable for certain books - collections of stories in which you jump around, manuals that you flip through, and anything else you don't read linearly. Or if you are 'studying' something, and pausing frequently, it gets completely messed up.

tomsem · 11-07-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vxf

THAT!

No, really, I get it, page numbers are not perfect.
Now, I'd like my page numbers back.
Location... ya... I'll pass.
Time to completion works in some cases. First, it's good ex-post, but it tells me nothing about how long a book is going to be before I start reading it. Second, it's not reliable for certain books - collections of stories in which you jump around, manuals that you flip through, and anything else you don't read linearly. Or if you are 'studying' something, and pausing frequently, it gets completely messed up.

Yes, but you get all of that other detail by tapping whenever you want to know this. Personally, I'm quite happy with the minimalism.

pidgeon92 · 11-07-2012, 09:42 PM

I like to keep a buggy whip in my trunk.

Just in case.

Nicky_oz · 11-08-2012, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

Page numbers only display on side-loaded materials if you have run them through Calibre and generated page numbers. So, they are artificial page numbers, not related to a paper edition.

A missing table of contents is a book formatting issue, and should be addressed to the publisher, not Amazon.

No, actually, the book has a TOC. It displays on my sisters keyboard kindle 3g, and NOT on my brand new paperwhite. Book was purchased from Amazon as we have both kindles on the same account.
So really there is no explanation other than Amazon decided to take it out of the paperwhite.

Page numbers may not mean much, they may be made up according to font, device, etc. But i would rather know what page I'm on, even if it's different accross devices.
Estimated time to finish is useless. It will change daily because of interruptions or how much you feel like reading, so I don't see how it's an accurate measure at all.

This close to giving away my paperwhite because of something so stupid- i hate companies that decide to take basic things away for no reason.

11-07-2012, 03:50 PM	#1
Nicky_oz Enthusiast Posts: 37 Karma: 110 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kindle PW, Nook, Kindle Keyboard, iPad.	Paperwhite missing Page Numbers..frustration I've searched for hours on this. The best I can find is that some books do and some don't, and you have to tap the menu on top to find the page number. If your book has it? is it really this primitive? when it has something as useless as a location which is only good for other Kindles, and time to read and whatever other rubbish.. why take away page numbers. Both books I've got on the PW are bought directly from Amazon and were downloaded wirelessly via the cloud, on wifi. Does anyone have any solutions? I'm happy to try anything. I just find the absence of page numbers really frustrating. Real or not, it's such a stupid basic thing to take away..

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11-07-2012, 04:01 PM	#2
susan_cassidy Wizard Posts: 2,251 Karma: 3720310 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Device: Kindle, iPad (not used much for reading)	It wasn't taken away, page numbers were only added relatively recently. If the book has them, they will display when you tap the menu. If not, then not. Page numbers are only useful if you are in a book club or something where you need to refer to paper edition page numbers. Locations are much more accurate. ETA: some ereaders have calculated page numbers that are just made up. So, they don't help if you are referring to a paper edition.

11-07-2012, 04:04 PM	#3
vxf Guru Posts: 944 Karma: 1490348 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Norman, OK Device: Sony PRS 350, 900, 950; Kindles (ALL of them!); Kobo Aura One	My understanding of the issue is the same as yours, Nicky. I also share your frustration. Why could they put page numbers in there when you access the menu, but not while reading, is beyond me. It's not a huge deal, as far as I am concerned. But it's frustrating in its utter stupidity.

11-07-2012, 04:09 PM	#4
Nicky_oz Enthusiast Posts: 37 Karma: 110 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kindle PW, Nook, Kindle Keyboard, iPad.	Thank you for your reply Susan. On two other kindles in my house keyboard 3rd gens i think they are, page numbers display on all books, mostly side-loaded. I don't find locations useful at all, actually I find them completely pointless. The number is meaningless to me and to anyone else that would pick up my kindle to see how far I am through a book. I also don't understand under what intelligent design principle someone would put page numbers on top of a menu that needs to be tapped. I work in engineering R&D and actually write documentation, so I feel quite knowledgable in user experience and documents, and I find this so frustrating. Same with a missing table of contents! to not have access to a book's table of contents you rightly purchased that has TOCs (I saw it on my sisters kindle) is just ridiculous. If it wasn't for the nice screen and the fact my Nook first Gen is running out of juice, I'd return this lovely paperwhite.

11-07-2012, 04:14 PM	#7
susan_cassidy Wizard Posts: 2,251 Karma: 3720310 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Device: Kindle, iPad (not used much for reading)	Page numbers only display on side-loaded materials if you have run them through Calibre and generated page numbers. So, they are artificial page numbers, not related to a paper edition. A missing table of contents is a book formatting issue, and should be addressed to the publisher, not Amazon.

11-07-2012, 05:29 PM	#9
pidgeon92 Wizard Posts: 3,144 Karma: 8426142 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Device: Kindle PW2, Kindle Voyage, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD	I prefer locations as well. Having read a few hundred books on my Kindles in the last few years, I now have a sense of how long a book is by looking at the locations. The principle is just the same, it's just a different unit of measure.

11-07-2012, 08:36 PM	#11
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,908 Karma: 27013865 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Whatever their usefulness in terms of citations or book club references, page numbers are pretty unreliable measures of reading progress, whether in ebooks or print books. Even when they refer to a specific print edition, you can have a 300 page book with larger type on smaller pages or you can have 300 pages of smaller type on bigger pages, each dramatically different in terms of reading time. The Paperwhite's 'm hrs n mins left in chapter/book' feature is a worthy attempt to solve 'the reading progress problem.' It is dynamic and adjusts to the type of reading you are doing. Perhaps the toggled options could have included one for 'page m/n' for books with page numbers, but then we are back to a measure that only represents a relative measure of progress like % complete, and not one that tells you anything particularly useful about reading progress.

11-07-2012, 09:42 PM	#14
pidgeon92 Wizard Posts: 3,144 Karma: 8426142 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Device: Kindle PW2, Kindle Voyage, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD	I like to keep a buggy whip in my trunk. Just in case.

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