Is this right?

Sydney's Mom · 04-19-2012, 02:08 PM

Decided it was time to give a little $$ to my local library, because I have been making great use of their ebook collection. So I wanted to direct it to ebooks, and they had to get the librarian to tell them how to direct the contribution. Fine. But after I wrote out the check, the librarian asked what books I would like to see.

I was speachless. I kind of mumbled, but thinking about it, I don't know what else I could have said. Libraries are for everyone, and just because I gave a little money, my desires should be given no more weight than any other user of the library. I thought about saying no more gay erotica, but what right do I have to deny those that like those kind of books. It seemed almost like a First Amendment issue.

Maybe it is just an overdeveloped guilt gene. I am starting to feel uncomfortable about pbooks as well. I recently requested and read the Art of Fielding (great book) and when I went in Tuesday night, saw it on the shelf. If I had known they were going to buy it just for me, I would have gone out and bought it myself.

I know a lot of us used libraries when we couldn't afford to buy books. So, should there be an income cut-off for library useage?

elemenoP · 04-19-2012, 02:11 PM

They didn't ask you what books you DON'T want in the library. They asked for acquisition suggestions from a patron, I don't see anything wrong with that.

And what does your income have to do with it?

eP

Synamon · 04-19-2012, 02:13 PM

Where do you get recommendations for books from? I get mine from other readers. Getting suggestions for the library from avid readers who show an interest in the library's collection makes sense, librarians have a limited amount of time to keep up with what might or might not be popular.

ETA: I posted this before the ridiculous poll was created, obviously this thread is about something other than what was posted in the OP, carry on without me.

elemenoP · 04-19-2012, 02:14 PM

Now I see your poll and I'm even more confused. Libraries should be run for the good of all your patrons, rich and poor, as best you can manage. Where's that option?

eP

jgaiser · 04-19-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elemenoP

Now I see your poll and I'm even more confused. Libraries should be run for the good of all your patrons, rich and poor, as best you can manage. Where's that option?

Yep.. We all already pay for libraries with our taxes. They are and should continue to be open to everybody. And yes I still use my little local library.

Kumabjorn · 04-19-2012, 02:17 PM

The librarian asked you what books you'd like to see, not what books you'd prefer they keep out of the library. I think that he might still be new to the concept of e-books and would like some information on how e-book lenders think.
It might not translate into immediate purchases, but could be for discussion points at regional librarian conferences. If I had been asked that question I might have answered; "Well, don't bother too much with reference work, they are great on an e-reader but you really need to own it to have constant access. There is lot of reasonably priced fiction available, but non-fiction books in e-format are pricey and something a lot of people would prefer to test before buying."

Giggleton · 04-19-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elemenoP

Now I see your poll and I'm even more confused. Libraries should be run for the good of all your patrons, rich and poor, as best you can manage. Where's that option?

It would be quite easy to obtain e-copies of every e-book for every e-library...

John F · 04-19-2012, 02:41 PM

In regards to the OP and the poll.

I think everyone who is a member of a library should be able to use it. We have a town library, so everyone in the town should be able to use the town library (after getting a library membership). I'm also a member at the Philadelphia Free Library (I pay an annual fee).

Both libraries seem very eager for suggestions for books to add.

JSWolf · 04-19-2012, 02:54 PM

None of the options available are relevant to how I use the library. I can afford to buy some books but if I was going to buy them, I would not be going to the library. Besides, I do help find the library with my taxes. And you have to blame the price fix 6 for my increased use of the library. If they didn't price their eBooks so expensively with no chance of any discounts, then I would have bought more eBooks instead of going to the library.

RHWright · 04-19-2012, 02:56 PM

Libraries should be for everyone, especially those who can't afford to donate. I'm glad a small fraction of my taxes go to libraries. (Makes me feel less bad writing out those checks.) I wish it was more there & less on other stuff.

My library actually has an online function to recommend acquisitions. They've been very good about suggestions. They will even email you, telling you it's been requisitioned or not. More often than not, they have made the purchases I suggested.

Nahgem · 04-19-2012, 03:16 PM

Don't feel guilty. I can't speak for the library in question, but I know that at at the library where I work, when we get requests for books via ILL or just people asking why we don't have a title, if we can afford it, and if it fits our collection development outlines, we often try to buy it. Requests are one of the ways a library learns what their patrons want to be reading. For example, we're an academic library with a very small juvenile/YA collection, but we've gotten so many ILL requests for The Hunger Games that we've considered sending a purchase request to our acquisitions department. We rushed a purchase for the Steve Jobs biography based on a patron request.

You may have been the one to initially request the book, but chances are they didn't buy it "just" for you. Other people will eventually read it as well. But if nobody asks for something that the library isn't buying, then nobody can read it because nobody knows people want it. And even if you ARE the only one who ever uses it, some libraries are OK with that as well, since that's the risk they take when they buy something that only one person has requested.

As for the poll, I'm going with none-of-the-above. I'm ignoring the last two choices because they imply that libraries are irrelevant (or that people would like them to be). "Pay to play" is already sort of what happens, it just depends on which type of library you're talking about as to how the paying gets done. Assuming you're referring to public libraries, people usually pay by paying taxes, with membership fees being usually reserved for people who are out of district (and thus don't support with their taxes). "If you can afford to buy books, don't use the library" is just ridiculous. Aside from the fact that you've probably already "paid" for your library use with your taxes, libraries aren't just book repositories. My god, I don't know how long and how loudly librarians are going to have to keep shouting that before people finally get it.

Libraries offer resources that even the wealthy can't necessarily just have access to because they have money, or that aren't practical to buy on whims. Someone may be able to afford most of the books they want to buy, but paying $45 for a 5 page scholarly article on the scientific advances in developing genetically-enhanced glow-in-the-dark kittens is not really cost-effective (and, yes, that is a realistic cost estimate). Less facetiously, there are expensive technical manuals and textbooks, the research services a research librarian is trained to provide, periodical and journal subscriptions, some libraries let you borrow ereaders and tablets, some specialize in local history, some in genealogies. Librarians host various programs for the community, sometimes literacy based, sometimes not. I've even read about libraries that lend out things like power tools and cake pans and art.

And even if they didn't offer those other services, public libraries are a community resource. If you're part of the community, it shouldn't matter how much money you make or don't; it's still your library too.

Shopaholic · 04-19-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

I recently requested and read the Art of Fielding (great book) and when I went in Tuesday night, saw it on the shelf. If I had known they were going to buy it just for me, I would have gone out and bought it myself.

I know a lot of us used libraries when we couldn't afford to buy books. So, should there be an income cut-off for library useage?

That's quite the assumption you've made. Who said they bought it solely on your request and donation? How do you know it wasn't on their list to purchase? How do you know they didn't already have it and you just never noticed it?

Sorry but add me to the list of those that don't like your poll. It's not about income or what someone can or cannot afford.

JSWolf · 04-19-2012, 03:27 PM

I've noticed that every time I request specific eBook(s), there is a waiting list. So I know my requests are being read by others. I have never seen any of my requests go unread by others.

QuantumIguana · 04-19-2012, 03:39 PM

Donors often get what they want. After all, you did want the library to direct the donation in the direction you wanted, to e-books. Nothing wrong with that. Then the library asked if you wanted it directed to specific types of e-books. That's the sort of thing a donor might want to do. You didn't want to have your donation directed any more narrowly than that, you just wanted your donation broadly directed to e-books, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you can direct your donation to e-books, what is wrong with directing your donation to specific types of e-books? Someone might want the library to buy more history or math books, for example.

None of the poll options are viable answers. We need libraries. Libraries aren't just for poor people, libraries are an integral part of the community. If they were made into places just for the poor, they would soon close. They would lose support from the people turned away, and poor people would no longer go there, as library use would most likely become stigmatized.

Phogg · 04-19-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Yep.. We all already pay for libraries with our taxes. They are and should continue to be open to everybody. And yes I still use my little local library.

In some places libraries are paid for with taxes.
In other places libraries run entirely on donations and fundraisers.
Generally the money is raised by people who want everyone to read.

Nothing wrong with catering to what the patrons actually want.

View Poll Results: How should libraries be run?
Pay to play	6	60.00%
If you can afford to buy books, don't use the library	2	20.00%
Who uses the library?	2	20.00%
We shouldn't even have libraries - I am a publisher	0	0%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

04-19-2012, 02:08 PM	#1
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,896 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	Is this right? Decided it was time to give a little $$ to my local library, because I have been making great use of their ebook collection. So I wanted to direct it to ebooks, and they had to get the librarian to tell them how to direct the contribution. Fine. But after I wrote out the check, the librarian asked what books I would like to see. I was speachless. I kind of mumbled, but thinking about it, I don't know what else I could have said. Libraries are for everyone, and just because I gave a little money, my desires should be given no more weight than any other user of the library. I thought about saying no more gay erotica, but what right do I have to deny those that like those kind of books. It seemed almost like a First Amendment issue. Maybe it is just an overdeveloped guilt gene. I am starting to feel uncomfortable about pbooks as well. I recently requested and read the Art of Fielding (great book) and when I went in Tuesday night, saw it on the shelf. If I had known they were going to buy it just for me, I would have gone out and bought it myself. I know a lot of us used libraries when we couldn't afford to buy books. So, should there be an income cut-off for library useage?

04-19-2012, 02:13 PM	#3
Synamon Lunatic Posts: 1,691 Karma: 4386372 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Land of the Loonie Device: Kindle Paperwhite and Keyboard, Kobo Aura, iPad mini, iPod Touch	Where do you get recommendations for books from? I get mine from other readers. Getting suggestions for the library from avid readers who show an interest in the library's collection makes sense, librarians have a limited amount of time to keep up with what might or might not be popular. ETA: I posted this before the ridiculous poll was created, obviously this thread is about something other than what was posted in the OP, carry on without me. Last edited by Synamon; 04-19-2012 at 02:21 PM.

04-19-2012, 03:16 PM	#11
Nahgem Groupie Posts: 170 Karma: 1065326 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Nooks	Huge wall o' text because I have FEELINGS. Don't feel guilty. I can't speak for the library in question, but I know that at at the library where I work, when we get requests for books via ILL or just people asking why we don't have a title, if we can afford it, and if it fits our collection development outlines, we often try to buy it. Requests are one of the ways a library learns what their patrons want to be reading. For example, we're an academic library with a very small juvenile/YA collection, but we've gotten so many ILL requests for The Hunger Games that we've considered sending a purchase request to our acquisitions department. We rushed a purchase for the Steve Jobs biography based on a patron request. You may have been the one to initially request the book, but chances are they didn't buy it "just" for you. Other people will eventually read it as well. But if nobody asks for something that the library isn't buying, then nobody can read it because nobody knows people want it. And even if you ARE the only one who ever uses it, some libraries are OK with that as well, since that's the risk they take when they buy something that only one person has requested. As for the poll, I'm going with none-of-the-above. I'm ignoring the last two choices because they imply that libraries are irrelevant (or that people would like them to be). "Pay to play" is already sort of what happens, it just depends on which type of library you're talking about as to how the paying gets done. Assuming you're referring to public libraries, people usually pay by paying taxes, with membership fees being usually reserved for people who are out of district (and thus don't support with their taxes). "If you can afford to buy books, don't use the library" is just ridiculous. Aside from the fact that you've probably already "paid" for your library use with your taxes, libraries aren't just book repositories. My god, I don't know how long and how loudly librarians are going to have to keep shouting that before people finally get it. Libraries offer resources that even the wealthy can't necessarily just have access to because they have money, or that aren't practical to buy on whims. Someone may be able to afford most of the books they want to buy, but paying $45 for a 5 page scholarly article on the scientific advances in developing genetically-enhanced glow-in-the-dark kittens is not really cost-effective (and, yes, that is a realistic cost estimate). Less facetiously, there are expensive technical manuals and textbooks, the research services a research librarian is trained to provide, periodical and journal subscriptions, some libraries let you borrow ereaders and tablets, some specialize in local history, some in genealogies. Librarians host various programs for the community, sometimes literacy based, sometimes not. I've even read about libraries that lend out things like power tools and cake pans and art. And even if they didn't offer those other services, public libraries are a community resource. If you're part of the community, it shouldn't matter how much money you make or don't; it's still your library too.

04-19-2012, 02:11 PM	#2
elemenoP Wizard Posts: 1,717 Karma: 3790058 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NYC Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650	They didn't ask you what books you DON'T want in the library. They asked for acquisition suggestions from a patron, I don't see anything wrong with that. And what does your income have to do with it? eP

04-19-2012, 02:14 PM	#4
elemenoP Wizard Posts: 1,717 Karma: 3790058 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NYC Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650	Now I see your poll and I'm even more confused. Libraries should be run for the good of all your patrons, rich and poor, as best you can manage. Where's that option? eP

04-19-2012, 02:17 PM	#6
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	The librarian asked you what books you'd like to see, not what books you'd prefer they keep out of the library. I think that he might still be new to the concept of e-books and would like some information on how e-book lenders think. It might not translate into immediate purchases, but could be for discussion points at regional librarian conferences. If I had been asked that question I might have answered; "Well, don't bother too much with reference work, they are great on an e-reader but you really need to own it to have constant access. There is lot of reasonably priced fiction available, but non-fiction books in e-format are pricey and something a lot of people would prefer to test before buying."

04-19-2012, 02:41 PM	#8
John F Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,861 Karma: 70186493 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo Clara 2E	In regards to the OP and the poll. I think everyone who is a member of a library should be able to use it. We have a town library, so everyone in the town should be able to use the town library (after getting a library membership). I'm also a member at the Philadelphia Free Library (I pay an annual fee). Both libraries seem very eager for suggestions for books to add.

04-19-2012, 02:54 PM	#9
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,169 Karma: 144286760 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	None of the options available are relevant to how I use the library. I can afford to buy some books but if I was going to buy them, I would not be going to the library. Besides, I do help find the library with my taxes. And you have to blame the price fix 6 for my increased use of the library. If they didn't price their eBooks so expensively with no chance of any discounts, then I would have bought more eBooks instead of going to the library.

04-19-2012, 02:56 PM	#10
RHWright Addict Posts: 219 Karma: 2617122 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: North Carolina Device: NOOK ST, Nexus 7	Libraries should be for everyone, especially those who can't afford to donate. I'm glad a small fraction of my taxes go to libraries. (Makes me feel less bad writing out those checks.) I wish it was more there & less on other stuff. My library actually has an online function to recommend acquisitions. They've been very good about suggestions. They will even email you, telling you it's been requisitioned or not. More often than not, they have made the purchases I suggested.

04-19-2012, 03:27 PM	#13
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,169 Karma: 144286760 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I've noticed that every time I request specific eBook(s), there is a waiting list. So I know my requests are being read by others. I have never seen any of my requests go unread by others.

04-19-2012, 03:39 PM	#14
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	Donors often get what they want. After all, you did want the library to direct the donation in the direction you wanted, to e-books. Nothing wrong with that. Then the library asked if you wanted it directed to specific types of e-books. That's the sort of thing a donor might want to do. You didn't want to have your donation directed any more narrowly than that, you just wanted your donation broadly directed to e-books, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you can direct your donation to e-books, what is wrong with directing your donation to specific types of e-books? Someone might want the library to buy more history or math books, for example. None of the poll options are viable answers. We need libraries. Libraries aren't just for poor people, libraries are an integral part of the community. If they were made into places just for the poor, they would soon close. They would lose support from the people turned away, and poor people would no longer go there, as library use would most likely become stigmatized.

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