Screen darkening over minutes

Gogolo · 11-15-2007, 07:08 AM

Hi

It is obvious that when I do a page turn after I left the iLiad for some minutes the image gets a lot brighter.

I mean: if I leave the iLiad when a pdf is open, it gets darker and darker until I turn a page.

Do you know this? Is this normal?
Thank you
Gogolo

Adam B. · 11-15-2007, 07:53 AM

I thought the same thing but figured it was just my eyes playing tricks on me. It's quite odd given the nature of e-ink.

Edit: It never gets to the point where it's *really* dark or unreadable in any way. It just seems to loose a little "whiteness" until I turn the page.

Gogolo · 11-15-2007, 08:17 AM

Thanks for your reply Adam. Yes its not really dark, but noticeable. Maybe Irex is able to manage this little "bug" - maybe not, if its in the nature of eInk.

Greetings
Olivier

kapoira · 11-15-2007, 08:24 AM

i can confirm that irex have tell me that this is the nature of the e-ink, unless is A LOT of black.

You can search in the forum of irex, about the icon of the lock, and that i have seen more white, that the contorn around it, when you change for 1 or 2 minutes.

nekokami · 11-15-2007, 08:43 AM

It makes sense, when you think about it. The electrostatic charge moves the black and white particles, but then turns off. I don't think the charge remains in the screen after the power is off, i.e. I don't think each pixel holds an electrostatic charge after the page is turned or the screen is otherwise refreshed. There would be a certain amount of drift in the particles after this, due to Brownian motion.

JSWolf · 11-15-2007, 09:46 AM

With Vizplex, I do not notice that sort of phenomenon.

juancarlosleo · 11-26-2007, 05:28 PM

Y esta gente ¿por qué presume de 16 grados de grises? Si cada vez está más gris toda la pantalla, esa es una información RADICALMENTE FALSA.
LOS NUEVOS QUE BUSCAN UN APARATO DIGNO PARA LEER, DEBEN SABERLO. Yo ya llevo dos dispositivos, y los dos han terminado por ser ilegibles, al cabo de 3 meses; ya sería casualidad que me tocarán a mi los dos únicos defectuosos, no? Sin duda, hay muchos usuarios que antes de aceptar la realidad son capaces de adaptar sus ojos al progresivo engrisecimiento de la pantalla.
YO ESTOY MUY INSATISFECHO CON ESTE INVENTO.

Gogolo · 11-27-2007, 04:28 AM

The "official" language of this forum is english. My english is also bad, but I DO NOT UNDERSTAND spanish at all.

nekokami · 11-27-2007, 09:42 AM

My Spanish is pretty weak, but I think it's something about the screen not really supporting 16 shades of gray, as far as the poster's eyes can tell. And that the poster isn't happy with the product.

Shaggy · 11-27-2007, 10:42 AM

He posts over on the iRex forum a lot as well. I don't speak Spanish either, but from what I can tell from babelfish he is obviously unhappy with the product, and has also decided that it's his mission to spread as much bad publicity for the company as he can. He seems to be hitting a lot of threads in multiple forums lately. Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if he spent as much effort contacting iRex for help as he does bashing them on forums.

pedroantonio · 11-27-2007, 11:52 AM

I will try to resume what juancarlosleo has been posting in various threads here and in irex forums.

Basically he bought one iliad, and after 2 months the screen background turned so grey that the text-background contrast was diminished and it was very difficult and unpleasant to read in it. Then he bought another one, and after 3 months the same happened. He says he have tried to contact the techsupport but he had to wait 2 months for a response. I don't really know, by reading his posts, how was that response.

As a result, he came to the conclusion that the iliad is a far worse device than advertisements make people believe, that the grey screen is not a bug of his units, but a fault in design, fabrication flaw or something like that, something cronic. For him the fact that the screen gets more grey in time is inaceptable in a device priced so high. And he thinks that the people who doesn't talk about the progressive greyeing are either fanboys that don't want to see reality or even vendors that try to hide the product deffects so the sales are not affected. Basically he thinks the iliad is a fraud.

Then he has the intention, in his own words, of sabotaging the irex sales in two ways:
-showing his wasted iliads to his friends so they don't make the same error that him and buy the device.
-talking in the forums about what happened to him, because as i said, he thinks that forums are full of fanboys and vendors that don't see or don't want to say the truth.

The reason he always writes in spanish is that he doesn't know enough writed english to show the full range of his frustration in that language.

My own first iliad is arriving my home in a couple of days and i'm very scared and sad because of the things he has written. But, if my iliad gets dark, not only shall i contact techsupport, but remember to myself, as an usual buyer of different hardwares, that maybe i have disobeyed the golden rule of technology products:

NEVER BUY THE FIRST GENERATION OF A TECHNOLOGY (because is always flawed).

Tough my iliad is a second edition, so maybe i will be lucky

nekokami · 11-27-2007, 12:18 PM

Thanks for the summary. I am no "fanboy," but I've had my iLiad since May and I still find the screen very readable. I think most of the units have aged better than his seem to have aged. I am sorry for his troubles and hope some kind of better solution becomes possible for him. I don't think this method of his is going to help him or anyone else.

Shaggy · 11-27-2007, 02:10 PM

He may or may not have gotten two bad units in a row, I have no idea. However, based on some of his comments (hard to tell, computer translators aren't always accurate), I think there's also some amount of unrealistic expectations going on. He keeps saying that the background is grey, not white like a book. That's the nature of eInk though. The screen is not going to look like a perfectly black/white piece of paper that just came out of a printer. Maybe that's what his expectation is? There's also a known effect that a new eInk screen will fade slightly with first use. None of that is specific to the iLiad, it's just the nature of the technology in general. It's possible that both of his units were perfectly normal, but he just doesn't understand the characteristics of first generation eInk technology.

I've had mine for 6 months or so, and am still very happy with it. There was a little bit of fading initially and it gets some minimal ghosting, but nothing that interferes with the reading experience (it's not even that noticable). It's still a very readable screen, and IMO, much better for ebooks than non-eInk technologies.

Obviously his current method of dealing with it isn't going to solve anything though. He seems to have given up on asking for any help, and is just accusing anybody who is happy with the device of being an iRex salesman in disguise.

kapoira · 11-27-2007, 04:28 PM

i can speak spanish and yes he is commenting that the 2 iliads he has buy, has gotten a grey background in months, and sending to irex don't have solved the problem irex don't respond some mails of him. And is very frustating from his point of view, yes i know that is very frustating seen him "spaming" in many forums, but i think that is "correct" that he shares his point of view.

tribble · 11-27-2007, 04:37 PM

Well, i offered to try and help him, but he rather keeps complaining than accepting help.
Though i can see his point and i assume it is a valid complaint, i do not understand why he would rather refuse help and keep complaining. But everyone should do as he pleases.

I only whish he would complain in english.

11-15-2007, 07:08 AM	#1
Gogolo Addict Posts: 353 Karma: 92 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: DR1000S, Nook ST (rooted), Kobo Aura one (ksm)	Screen darkening over minutes Hi It is obvious that when I do a page turn after I left the iLiad for some minutes the image gets a lot brighter. I mean: if I leave the iLiad when a pdf is open, it gets darker and darker until I turn a page. Do you know this? Is this normal? Thank you Gogolo

11-27-2007, 11:52 AM	#11
pedroantonio Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: irex iliad	I will try to resume what juancarlosleo has been posting in various threads here and in irex forums. Basically he bought one iliad, and after 2 months the screen background turned so grey that the text-background contrast was diminished and it was very difficult and unpleasant to read in it. Then he bought another one, and after 3 months the same happened. He says he have tried to contact the techsupport but he had to wait 2 months for a response. I don't really know, by reading his posts, how was that response. As a result, he came to the conclusion that the iliad is a far worse device than advertisements make people believe, that the grey screen is not a bug of his units, but a fault in design, fabrication flaw or something like that, something cronic. For him the fact that the screen gets more grey in time is inaceptable in a device priced so high. And he thinks that the people who doesn't talk about the progressive greyeing are either fanboys that don't want to see reality or even vendors that try to hide the product deffects so the sales are not affected. Basically he thinks the iliad is a fraud. Then he has the intention, in his own words, of sabotaging the irex sales in two ways: -showing his wasted iliads to his friends so they don't make the same error that him and buy the device. -talking in the forums about what happened to him, because as i said, he thinks that forums are full of fanboys and vendors that don't see or don't want to say the truth. The reason he always writes in spanish is that he doesn't know enough writed english to show the full range of his frustration in that language. My own first iliad is arriving my home in a couple of days and i'm very scared and sad because of the things he has written. But, if my iliad gets dark, not only shall i contact techsupport, but remember to myself, as an usual buyer of different hardwares, that maybe i have disobeyed the golden rule of technology products: NEVER BUY THE FIRST GENERATION OF A TECHNOLOGY (because is always flawed). Tough my iliad is a second edition, so maybe i will be lucky Last edited by pedroantonio; 11-27-2007 at 12:01 PM.

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11-15-2007, 07:53 AM	#2
Adam B. Addicted to Porting Posts: 1,697 Karma: 7194 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN Device: iRex iLiad, Nokia 770, Samsung i760	I thought the same thing but figured it was just my eyes playing tricks on me. It's quite odd given the nature of e-ink. Edit: It never gets to the point where it's really dark or unreadable in any way. It just seems to loose a little "whiteness" until I turn the page.

11-15-2007, 08:17 AM	#3
Gogolo Addict Posts: 353 Karma: 92 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: DR1000S, Nook ST (rooted), Kobo Aura one (ksm)	Thanks for your reply Adam. Yes its not really dark, but noticeable. Maybe Irex is able to manage this little "bug" - maybe not, if its in the nature of eInk. Greetings Olivier

11-15-2007, 08:24 AM	#4
kapoira Connoisseur Posts: 81 Karma: 292 Join Date: Nov 2006 Device: i62HD + T68	i can confirm that irex have tell me that this is the nature of the e-ink, unless is A LOT of black. You can search in the forum of irex, about the icon of the lock, and that i have seen more white, that the contorn around it, when you change for 1 or 2 minutes.

11-15-2007, 08:43 AM	#5
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	It makes sense, when you think about it. The electrostatic charge moves the black and white particles, but then turns off. I don't think the charge remains in the screen after the power is off, i.e. I don't think each pixel holds an electrostatic charge after the page is turned or the screen is otherwise refreshed. There would be a certain amount of drift in the particles after this, due to Brownian motion.

11-15-2007, 09:46 AM	#6
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,973 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	With Vizplex, I do not notice that sort of phenomenon.

11-26-2007, 05:28 PM	#7
juancarlosleo Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Iliad	Y esta gente ¿por qué presume de 16 grados de grises? Si cada vez está más gris toda la pantalla, esa es una información RADICALMENTE FALSA. LOS NUEVOS QUE BUSCAN UN APARATO DIGNO PARA LEER, DEBEN SABERLO. Yo ya llevo dos dispositivos, y los dos han terminado por ser ilegibles, al cabo de 3 meses; ya sería casualidad que me tocarán a mi los dos únicos defectuosos, no? Sin duda, hay muchos usuarios que antes de aceptar la realidad son capaces de adaptar sus ojos al progresivo engrisecimiento de la pantalla. YO ESTOY MUY INSATISFECHO CON ESTE INVENTO.

11-27-2007, 04:28 AM	#8
Gogolo Addict Posts: 353 Karma: 92 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: DR1000S, Nook ST (rooted), Kobo Aura one (ksm)	The "official" language of this forum is english. My english is also bad, but I DO NOT UNDERSTAND spanish at all.

11-27-2007, 09:42 AM	#9
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	My Spanish is pretty weak, but I think it's something about the screen not really supporting 16 shades of gray, as far as the poster's eyes can tell. And that the poster isn't happy with the product.

11-27-2007, 10:42 AM	#10
Shaggy Wizard Posts: 4,293 Karma: 529619 Join Date: May 2007 Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG	He posts over on the iRex forum a lot as well. I don't speak Spanish either, but from what I can tell from babelfish he is obviously unhappy with the product, and has also decided that it's his mission to spread as much bad publicity for the company as he can. He seems to be hitting a lot of threads in multiple forums lately. Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if he spent as much effort contacting iRex for help as he does bashing them on forums.

11-27-2007, 12:18 PM	#12
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Thanks for the summary. I am no "fanboy," but I've had my iLiad since May and I still find the screen very readable. I think most of the units have aged better than his seem to have aged. I am sorry for his troubles and hope some kind of better solution becomes possible for him. I don't think this method of his is going to help him or anyone else.

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11-27-2007, 02:10 PM	#13
Shaggy Wizard Posts: 4,293 Karma: 529619 Join Date: May 2007 Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG	He may or may not have gotten two bad units in a row, I have no idea. However, based on some of his comments (hard to tell, computer translators aren't always accurate), I think there's also some amount of unrealistic expectations going on. He keeps saying that the background is grey, not white like a book. That's the nature of eInk though. The screen is not going to look like a perfectly black/white piece of paper that just came out of a printer. Maybe that's what his expectation is? There's also a known effect that a new eInk screen will fade slightly with first use. None of that is specific to the iLiad, it's just the nature of the technology in general. It's possible that both of his units were perfectly normal, but he just doesn't understand the characteristics of first generation eInk technology. I've had mine for 6 months or so, and am still very happy with it. There was a little bit of fading initially and it gets some minimal ghosting, but nothing that interferes with the reading experience (it's not even that noticable). It's still a very readable screen, and IMO, much better for ebooks than non-eInk technologies. Obviously his current method of dealing with it isn't going to solve anything though. He seems to have given up on asking for any help, and is just accusing anybody who is happy with the device of being an iRex salesman in disguise.

11-27-2007, 04:28 PM	#14
kapoira Connoisseur Posts: 81 Karma: 292 Join Date: Nov 2006 Device: i62HD + T68	i can speak spanish and yes he is commenting that the 2 iliads he has buy, has gotten a grey background in months, and sending to irex don't have solved the problem irex don't respond some mails of him. And is very frustating from his point of view, yes i know that is very frustating seen him "spaming" in many forums, but i think that is "correct" that he shares his point of view.

11-27-2007, 04:37 PM	#15
tribble iLiad Maniac Posts: 1,382 Karma: 2369 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Device: Bookeen Opus (i love that thing) and iPad (what an irony)	Well, i offered to try and help him, but he rather keeps complaining than accepting help. Though i can see his point and i assume it is a valid complaint, i do not understand why he would rather refuse help and keep complaining. But everyone should do as he pleases. I only whish he would complain in english.