"Couple" without a preposition?

HarryT · 12-10-2011, 06:47 AM

In British English, it is mandatory to have the preposition "of" after the word "couple", in its meaning "two of something".

Eg, "A couple of questions", "A couple of kg of apples".

I've noticed many Americans on this forum omit the word "of" and say, for example, "I have a couple questions". This just looks wrong to me

. Is this an acceptable practice in US English?

Dr. Drib · 12-10-2011, 10:00 AM

Actually, in your example [U.S. English] sentence, I do say "I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask you."

I'm now wondering if it's a regional issue in the U.S.

Don

anamardoll · 12-10-2011, 11:47 AM

I do both, depending on setting. It feels equally natural to me to say "I have a couple of questions for you" and "I only have a couple questions". (Or even "I only have a couple," if the objects are obvious in the setting.)

It seems to vary based on formality and how quickly I need to get the sentence out (i.e., is someone walking away quickly, etc.)

mr ploppy · 12-10-2011, 02:21 PM

I don't know if it's correct grammar there or not, but you do see it a lot in American books, and not just in dialogue either.

JeremyR · 12-10-2011, 09:12 PM

Yup, strangely enough, Americans do often speak informally, relaxing the rules of grammar. But in my admittedly limited contact with Britishers, so do they.

That said, it really depends on the usage. Like you are at a meat counter, you might say "I'd like a couple steaks", but you would also probably say, "I'd like a couple of those steaks" if you were referring to specific ones.

And as mentioned, "I've got a couple questions" vs "I've got a couple of questions to ask you"

No one would ever say a "A couple of kg of apples." "A couple pounds of apples" I think most people would instead say.

It's actually kind of funny that it's used like that. I mean, you don't with "few" when it means three. "A few of questions" or "A few of kg of apples." Probably something picked up from French, which has influenced British English while American English is closer to original English. (Same reason you stopped saying your Rs, the Rhotic shift, only places in the US with close ties to England like NY and Boston picked it up, while the rest of us kept saying them. Most so called "Americanisms" are actually just Britishisms that we kept, but you didn't)

GA Russell · 12-10-2011, 09:37 PM

Harry, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I would say that the omitting of the "of" is always wrong.

In the past sixty years with the growth of rock 'n' roll and blues lyrics into mainstream speech, the idioms (if that's the right word) of the uneducated black tenant farmers who wrote and sang the songs have crept into white colloquial conversation.

So I can imagine an author writing as his characters would speak, but I would think that there is no excuse for the dropping of the "of" outside of an appropriate narrative.

anamardoll · 12-10-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Russell

In the past sixty years with the growth of rock 'n' roll and blues lyrics into mainstream speech, the idioms (if that's the right word) of the uneducated black tenant farmers who wrote and sang the songs have crept into white colloquial conversation.

There are not enough "rofl" emoticons in the world to express my amusement at the implication in your post that white Americans all spoke the Queen's English before Rock and Black People changed all that.

It's More Complicated Than That.

And, speaking as someone with a degree in English, you can pretty much never say that a style of writing is "always wrong". Odds are, no matter what the rule is, someone has broken it before and broken it to good effect.

Penforhire · 12-10-2011, 10:29 PM

I'm with GA. It always read incorrectly, to me, to leave out the "of." It doesn't seem to be regional to me.

One regional difference in America that blows me away is when we speak of numbered roads such as interstate highways. It does appear regional to say "I'm driving on the 5" versus "I'm driving on 5." I don't know all the linguistic borders these apply to but we use "the" commonly in southern California but not in northern California. I polled enough people that I consider this observed difference to be reasonably true (I used to live near SF, now near LA). No idea where it comes from.

GA Russell · 12-10-2011, 10:49 PM

Thanks, Penforhire!

In the South we say neither "5" nor "the 5", but rather "I-5".

Steve Robinson · 12-11-2011, 04:04 AM

Using the preposition, 'of' after 'couple' is grammatically correct. You'll never get into trouble if you use it, but you might if you don't. Dialogue is a different matter. Some people drop it in their everyday language (though not in the UK) but in written form it should be there.

HarryT · 12-11-2011, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Yup, strangely enough, Americans do often speak informally, relaxing the rules of grammar. But in my admittedly limited contact with Britishers, so do they.

Oh yes, absolutely. It so happens, though, that we don't relax this particular one, hence my curiosity.

HarryT · 12-11-2011, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Robinson

Using the preposition, 'of' after 'couple' is grammatically correct. You'll never get into trouble if you use it, but you might if you don't. Dialogue is a different matter. Some people drop it in their everyday language (though not in the UK) but in written form it should be there.

Here are a few examples from MR:

Quote:

I've tried the last couple days...
One day when I removed a couple apps...
It also worked fine with a couple arbitrary Calibre-generated ePUBs...
I just ordered mine a couple days ago...
It happened a couple weeks back...

So it would seem that omitting the preposition when referring to time is a particularly common phenomenon.

I was wrong, by the way, in saying that in British English, "couple" must always be followed by "of", because I also found this:

Quote:

A couple more points...

which would be absolutely fine in British English (indeed, it would be wrong to put "of" in there).

miguel1626 · 12-11-2011, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Russell

So I can imagine an author writing as his characters would speak, but I would think that there is no excuse for the dropping of the "of" outside of an appropriate narrative.

Feeble racist arguments are so easy to refute. Just do a search of the Corpus of Historical American English for "couple [n*]" and see how many instances of pre-1900 usage you'll be able to find...

Dr. Drib · 12-11-2011, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Thanks, Penforhire!

In the South we say neither "5" nor "the 5", but rather "I-5".

Exactly...or "I-40."

We Southerners know how to talk.

Don

Asawi · 12-11-2011, 06:56 AM

I'm not a native English speaker, nor do I live in an English speaking country, but I have to say that leaving out the "of" in print looks totally wrong to me!
In speak, sure, I kind of accept it. When I say my "of" it's almost not there, sort of integrated with the "couple". But in writing...

(We have a similar thing of omission of a conjunction in Swedish that also drives me nuts! It has migrated from spoken language to "bad" written language, and now spreading to what should be somewhat "better" writing as well.)

12-10-2011, 06:47 AM	#1
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	"Couple" without a preposition? In British English, it is mandatory to have the preposition "of" after the word "couple", in its meaning "two of something". Eg, "A couple of questions", "A couple of kg of apples". I've noticed many Americans on this forum omit the word "of" and say, for example, "I have a couple questions". This just looks wrong to me . Is this an acceptable practice in US English?

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12-10-2011, 10:00 AM	#2
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 45,337 Karma: 59447733 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: KINDLE: Oasis 3, Scribe (1st), Matcha; KOBO: Libra 2, Libra Colour	Actually, in your example [U.S. English] sentence, I do say "I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask you." I'm now wondering if it's a regional issue in the U.S. Don

12-10-2011, 11:47 AM	#3
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	I do both, depending on setting. It feels equally natural to me to say "I have a couple of questions for you" and "I only have a couple questions". (Or even "I only have a couple," if the objects are obvious in the setting.) It seems to vary based on formality and how quickly I need to get the sentence out (i.e., is someone walking away quickly, etc.)

12-10-2011, 02:21 PM	#4
mr ploppy Feral Underclass Posts: 3,622 Karma: 26821535 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire, tha noz Device: 2nd hand paperback	I don't know if it's correct grammar there or not, but you do see it a lot in American books, and not just in dialogue either.

12-10-2011, 09:12 PM	#5
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	Yup, strangely enough, Americans do often speak informally, relaxing the rules of grammar. But in my admittedly limited contact with Britishers, so do they. That said, it really depends on the usage. Like you are at a meat counter, you might say "I'd like a couple steaks", but you would also probably say, "I'd like a couple of those steaks" if you were referring to specific ones. And as mentioned, "I've got a couple questions" vs "I've got a couple of questions to ask you" No one would ever say a "A couple of kg of apples." "A couple pounds of apples" I think most people would instead say. It's actually kind of funny that it's used like that. I mean, you don't with "few" when it means three. "A few of questions" or "A few of kg of apples." Probably something picked up from French, which has influenced British English while American English is closer to original English. (Same reason you stopped saying your Rs, the Rhotic shift, only places in the US with close ties to England like NY and Boston picked it up, while the rest of us kept saying them. Most so called "Americanisms" are actually just Britishisms that we kept, but you didn't)

12-10-2011, 09:37 PM	#6
GA Russell Argos win Grey Cup! Posts: 7,675 Karma: 31487351 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	Harry, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I would say that the omitting of the "of" is always wrong. In the past sixty years with the growth of rock 'n' roll and blues lyrics into mainstream speech, the idioms (if that's the right word) of the uneducated black tenant farmers who wrote and sang the songs have crept into white colloquial conversation. So I can imagine an author writing as his characters would speak, but I would think that there is no excuse for the dropping of the "of" outside of an appropriate narrative.

12-10-2011, 10:29 PM	#8
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I'm with GA. It always read incorrectly, to me, to leave out the "of." It doesn't seem to be regional to me. One regional difference in America that blows me away is when we speak of numbered roads such as interstate highways. It does appear regional to say "I'm driving on the 5" versus "I'm driving on 5." I don't know all the linguistic borders these apply to but we use "the" commonly in southern California but not in northern California. I polled enough people that I consider this observed difference to be reasonably true (I used to live near SF, now near LA). No idea where it comes from.

12-10-2011, 10:49 PM	#9
GA Russell Argos win Grey Cup! Posts: 7,675 Karma: 31487351 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	Thanks, Penforhire! In the South we say neither "5" nor "the 5", but rather "I-5".

12-11-2011, 04:04 AM	#10
Steve Robinson Crime Fiction Writer Posts: 12 Karma: 64518 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: none	Using the preposition, 'of' after 'couple' is grammatically correct. You'll never get into trouble if you use it, but you might if you don't. Dialogue is a different matter. Some people drop it in their everyday language (though not in the UK) but in written form it should be there.

12-11-2011, 06:56 AM	#15
Asawi Gadgetoholic Posts: 1,467 Karma: 3865860 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sweden Device: Kobo Libra2, Tolino Vision 6	I'm not a native English speaker, nor do I live in an English speaking country, but I have to say that leaving out the "of" in print looks totally wrong to me! In speak, sure, I kind of accept it. When I say my "of" it's almost not there, sort of integrated with the "couple". But in writing... (We have a similar thing of omission of a conjunction in Swedish that also drives me nuts! It has migrated from spoken language to "bad" written language, and now spreading to what should be somewhat "better" writing as well.)

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