Apple + Agency Pubs Colluded on Price?

CRussel · 08-09-2011, 05:53 PM

A class-action lawsuit has been filed in Federal District Court in Northern California today, alleging that Apple and five book publishers (HarperCollins, Hachette, Macmillan, Penguin and Simon&Schuster) colluded on book prices in order to force Amazon to "abandon its pro-consuer discount pricing."

Certainly unproven at this point, but I'll be interested to see where all this goes.

JeremyR · 08-09-2011, 05:59 PM

Isn't that basically what agency pricing is? Colluding to fix their prices?

That said, all this lawsuit will accomplish is lawyers getting a lot of money, with consumers getting a coupon worth $2 towards a $12.99 e-book purchase....

CRussel · 08-09-2011, 06:01 PM

Well, if I get a coupon for $2 for every eBook I've bought, that might buy a few.

Seriously, if it only stopped them doing it in the future I'd be happy.

Arrghus · 08-09-2011, 07:31 PM

Unfortunately, some companies can afford to take the 'hit', or fine. Unilever and Proctor and Gamble were recently fined for price fixing by the EU. They are both massive companies who will have already paid their fines in profits generated from such collusions. And there is no mention of any compensation for the customer.

I think it's unlikely there will be any in this case, too.

However, this case is somewhat different, as publicly we know that Amazon has its eBook prices set by these publishers, whereas it was unknown in the case of Unilever and P&G as they 'merely' set the wholesale price, and not the retail price. This could lead to the abandonment of publisher set prices, but what worries me is that this could simply lead to the publishers just setting the wholesale price higher instead. Amazon and its ilk might then have to offer books at a loss in order to offer a discount, thus there might be little change for the consumer.

RainingLemur · 08-09-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRussel

A class-action lawsuit has been filed in Federal District Court in Northern California today, alleging that Apple and five book publishers (HarperCollins, Hachette, Macmillan, Penguin and Simon&Schuster) colluded on book prices in order to force Amazon to "abandon its pro-consuer discount pricing."

Certainly unproven at this point, but I'll be interested to see where all this goes.

I'd like to see just how the allegations could be proven.

Arrghus · 08-09-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainingLemur

I'd like to see just how the allegations could be proven.

If it became a criminal investigation, surely they would be looking at e-mails, letters, and other forms of communication between these companies to see if any collusion actually took place?

fjtorres · 08-09-2011, 08:46 PM

That suit's not going anywhere; they filed in Apple's backyard.
Should've filed in east texas.

kjk · 08-09-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrghus

If it became a criminal investigation, surely they would be looking at e-mails, letters, and other forms of communication between these companies to see if any collusion actually took place?

A class-action lawsuit is a bit different-anyone can bring one.

The real story would be if the Justice Department anti-trust department investigates-something like that could bring real change.

FizzyWater · 08-09-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

“As a result of the pricing conspiracy, prices of e-books have exploded, jumping as much as 50 percent. When an e-book version of a best-seller costs close to – or even more than – its hard-copy counterpart, it doesn’t take a forensic economist to see that this is evidence of market manipulation.”

I hate Agency pricing, but I haven't noticed overpriced "hardback" books. Even though they been priced higher than the previous 9.99 "sweet-spot", I haven't noticed pricing on ebooks with only hardback equivalents to be priced more than the print books...even when some offer the hardbacks on sale.

It's the paperback book pricing that drives me batty.

wyndslash · 08-09-2011, 11:01 PM

someone in the forum once mentioned that amazon's previous 9.99 pricing was proving to be more beneficial than agency pricing, in that people are more irked at the starting higher prices and demand lower prices, bringing up the topic of the "worth" of an ebook and now we're seeing publishers (in the discounts forum) discounting as low as 0.99, as opposed to that starting "sweet spot" 9.99. i think it went something like that, haha xP

phenomshel · 08-10-2011, 01:05 AM

I was just coming here to post this.

Dylrob · 08-10-2011, 01:06 AM

What I find really suspicious is that that the percentage that the book sellers get under the agency model matches the percentage that Apple demands on in-app purchases. And that they would only recently enforce that percentage.

carld · 08-10-2011, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

I haven't noticed pricing on ebooks with only hardback equivalents to be priced more than the print books

I've seen it with a number of books. It's insane that an ebook costs more than a hardback, but it definitely happens.

FizzyWater · 08-10-2011, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I've seen it with a number of books. It's insane that an ebook costs more than a hardback, but it definitely happens.

Wow. Just. Wow.

afa · 08-10-2011, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

I hate Agency pricing, but I haven't noticed overpriced "hardback" books.

As carld pointed out, it does happen. Pretty recently there were some examples of Amazon discounting hard-cover books to the point where their respective ebooks were more expensive. Whether this was a deliberate ploy to spite the Agency5 is debatable.

In any case, I think you misunderstood the passage. The quote you mentioned says "hard-copy", which merely means the physical, i.e. print, copy (as opposed to the digital format). This would include any print version, including paperback.

Not to be confused with 'hard-back' or 'hard-cover' prints.

08-09-2011, 05:53 PM	#1
CRussel (he/him/his) Posts: 12,283 Karma: 80074820 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Device: Oasis (Gen3),Paperwhite (Gen10), Voyage, Paperwhite(orig), Fire HD 8	Apple + Agency Pubs Colluded on Price? A class-action lawsuit has been filed in Federal District Court in Northern California today, alleging that Apple and five book publishers (HarperCollins, Hachette, Macmillan, Penguin and Simon&Schuster) colluded on book prices in order to force Amazon to "abandon its pro-consuer discount pricing." Certainly unproven at this point, but I'll be interested to see where all this goes.

08-10-2011, 01:06 AM	#12
Dylrob Murderous Mustela Posts: 10,234 Karma: 48000000 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The other land of schnitzel and beer Device: iPad M1 Pro, Kindle Paperwhite	What I find really suspicious is that that the percentage that the book sellers get under the agency model matches the percentage that Apple demands on in-app purchases. And that they would only recently enforce that percentage. Last edited by Dylrob; 08-10-2011 at 01:12 AM.

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08-09-2011, 05:59 PM	#2
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	Isn't that basically what agency pricing is? Colluding to fix their prices? That said, all this lawsuit will accomplish is lawyers getting a lot of money, with consumers getting a coupon worth $2 towards a $12.99 e-book purchase....

08-09-2011, 06:01 PM	#3
CRussel (he/him/his) Posts: 12,283 Karma: 80074820 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Device: Oasis (Gen3),Paperwhite (Gen10), Voyage, Paperwhite(orig), Fire HD 8	Well, if I get a coupon for $2 for every eBook I've bought, that might buy a few. Seriously, if it only stopped them doing it in the future I'd be happy.

08-09-2011, 07:31 PM	#4
Arrghus Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 5002 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Llandudno, Wales Device: Kindle PW2; Nexus 5X	Unfortunately, some companies can afford to take the 'hit', or fine. Unilever and Proctor and Gamble were recently fined for price fixing by the EU. They are both massive companies who will have already paid their fines in profits generated from such collusions. And there is no mention of any compensation for the customer. I think it's unlikely there will be any in this case, too. However, this case is somewhat different, as publicly we know that Amazon has its eBook prices set by these publishers, whereas it was unknown in the case of Unilever and P&G as they 'merely' set the wholesale price, and not the retail price. This could lead to the abandonment of publisher set prices, but what worries me is that this could simply lead to the publishers just setting the wholesale price higher instead. Amazon and its ilk might then have to offer books at a loss in order to offer a discount, thus there might be little change for the consumer.

08-09-2011, 08:46 PM	#7
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	That suit's not going anywhere; they filed in Apple's backyard. Should've filed in east texas.

08-09-2011, 11:01 PM	#10
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	someone in the forum once mentioned that amazon's previous 9.99 pricing was proving to be more beneficial than agency pricing, in that people are more irked at the starting higher prices and demand lower prices, bringing up the topic of the "worth" of an ebook and now we're seeing publishers (in the discounts forum) discounting as low as 0.99, as opposed to that starting "sweet spot" 9.99. i think it went something like that, haha xP

08-10-2011, 01:05 AM	#11
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	I was just coming here to post this.

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