Need some clarifiction

wyndslash · 03-28-2011, 05:03 AM

I'm a little confused. I hear people saying that you need to strip the DRM of a library book and convert formats for the kindle. I'm just wondering. It sounds like a stupid question, but if you strip the DRM and get it on your kindle, does that mean that it won't disappear after the loan period? (I don't have any nefarious motive for asking, but I just kept wondering about it)

JeremyR · 03-28-2011, 05:20 AM

Yes. The DRM is what tells it to self-destruct (and of course, when you convert it, it's completely DRM free)

So in all honesty, I don't see much different from say, just downloading the book illegally and simply deleting it after two weeks. (Provided you actually borrowed it from the library first, I mean instead of stripping the DRM yourself).

wyndslash · 03-28-2011, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Yes. The DRM is what tells it to self-destruct (and of course, when you convert it, it's completely DRM free)

So in all honesty, I don't see much different from say, just downloading the book illegally and simply deleting it after two weeks. (Provided you actually borrowed it from the library first, I mean instead of stripping the DRM yourself).

oh. so technically there's no stopping the person from just keeping it after? but how does the book go back to the lib's system, then?

cfrizz · 03-28-2011, 06:19 AM

I would say it doesn't go back. In which case if it was your intent to do so, skip the library copy and just go to the net to get one rather than depriving the library and others of their copy.

tilia · 03-28-2011, 06:29 AM

The one in ADE expires (it won’t open any more) as normal when the loan-period is over. The library has no knowledge of the DRM-free copy you’ve made, so it’s like any other file on your computer. Only your conscience will keep you from keeping the DRM-free copy after the loan expires.

wyndslash · 03-28-2011, 06:39 AM

ok, so as long as the drm-free copy is deleted once read, then all is good? no complications, right?

Anke Wehner · 03-28-2011, 06:43 AM

A computer file does not have to "go back". Digital files don't work that way.

When you get an ebook from a library, the library still has its copy, with a note "lent out to wyndslash until [date]", and you have another copy with info where it was borrowed from, and the "return" date.
If you make another copy to strip the DRM, you will have that DRM free copy, and the "returnable" one, and "return" it early - which is really deleting the file and telling the library "I don't have this book available anymore; you can 'lend' out the book to someone else now".
Even if somehow the file with DRM on your computer is deleted, the library would automatically treat the book as "returned" once the return date has passed, since you cannot access the copy on your computer anymore (without stripping the DRM).

Checking out a book froma library does something good for the author, though: The library sees people are interested in a book, and the more an author's books are checked out, the more likely it becomes their next book is bought, too. In many countries, authors also get a small reimbursement for library loans (not in the USA, though).

wyndslash · 03-28-2011, 06:50 AM

ooh, i see. thanks

i sure hope there aren't people who keep the drm-free copy to propagate it on the darknet. that'd be a shame.

Giggleton · 03-28-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndslash

ooh, i see. thanks

i sure hope there aren't people who keep the drm-free copy to propagate it on the darknet. that'd be a shame.

Are you being sarcastic? There are people who view what you describe as the route to the liberation of the culture. First we free the books, then we free the minds.

wyndslash · 03-28-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Are you being sarcastic? There are people who view what you describe as the route to the liberation of the culture. First we free the books, then we free the minds.

well...i'm just wondering where they freed you from

FF2 · 03-28-2011, 10:28 AM

My "expired" library books are still on my computer. They just cannot be read in the ADE program. It is up to me to do the necessary housekeeping (as we use to call it when I was a programmer) - that is I have to erase them from my computer myself. A "by the way" is that even after "expired" but while sitting there, you can still strip the drm and read them - curiousity got me to test this last week.

carpetmojo · 03-28-2011, 10:38 AM

There are people who view what you describe as the route to the liberation of the culture. First we free the books, then we free the minds.

And then we run out of authors 'cos they can't even make the pittance they were making by writing books................................

wyndslash · 03-28-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF2

My "expired" library books are still on my computer. They just cannot be read in the ADE program. It is up to me to do the necessary housekeeping (as we use to call it when I was a programmer) - that is I have to erase them from my computer myself. A "by the way" is that even after "expired" but while sitting there, you can still strip the drm and read them - curiousity got me to test this last week.

oh. it's all so complicated in a simple way

i wish kindle had access to library books without having to strip the drm. i'm sure there are people out there (maybe not on MR) who would take advantage. it's like stealing from the library and gives me a sick feeling.

OtterBooks · 03-28-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndslash

ok, so as long as the drm-free copy is deleted once read, then all is good? no complications, right?

Your karma would be intact, I think. The ethical benefit of getting it from the library rather than a darknet source is that when you check it out from the library you 'remove' one from their available inventory, possibly causing them to purchase more to accommodate lending demands (of that book, or future works by the author).

abookreader · 03-28-2011, 12:57 PM

yeah - that whole Karma thing. Plus you can be fairly confident that your library Overdrive Website isn't going to try and stick a virus on your computer.

As for as getting books from Overdrive for the Darknet, I don't know. My 2 Overdrive accounts (local and Singapore) don't usually get the "Bestsellers" until at minimum a week or two after release date. It is extremely rare anymore that they allow you to put in a hold for a book that is yet to be released. I suspect by the time Overdrive has the book available, it's likely already running free on the torrent sites.

03-28-2011, 05:03 AM	#1
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	Need some clarifiction I'm a little confused. I hear people saying that you need to strip the DRM of a library book and convert formats for the kindle. I'm just wondering. It sounds like a stupid question, but if you strip the DRM and get it on your kindle, does that mean that it won't disappear after the loan period? (I don't have any nefarious motive for asking, but I just kept wondering about it)

03-28-2011, 05:20 AM	#2
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	Yes. The DRM is what tells it to self-destruct (and of course, when you convert it, it's completely DRM free) So in all honesty, I don't see much different from say, just downloading the book illegally and simply deleting it after two weeks. (Provided you actually borrowed it from the library first, I mean instead of stripping the DRM yourself).

03-28-2011, 06:19 AM	#4
cfrizz Wizard Posts: 1,570 Karma: 36389706 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Quincy, MA Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite	I would say it doesn't go back. In which case if it was your intent to do so, skip the library copy and just go to the net to get one rather than depriving the library and others of their copy.

03-28-2011, 06:29 AM	#5
tilia Evangelist Posts: 432 Karma: 1720909 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Voyage, K3	The one in ADE expires (it won’t open any more) as normal when the loan-period is over. The library has no knowledge of the DRM-free copy you’ve made, so it’s like any other file on your computer. Only your conscience will keep you from keeping the DRM-free copy after the loan expires.

03-28-2011, 06:39 AM	#6
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	ok, so as long as the drm-free copy is deleted once read, then all is good? no complications, right?

03-28-2011, 06:43 AM	#7
Anke Wehner Addict Posts: 249 Karma: 177956 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany Device: PRS-650	A computer file does not have to "go back". Digital files don't work that way. When you get an ebook from a library, the library still has its copy, with a note "lent out to wyndslash until [date]", and you have another copy with info where it was borrowed from, and the "return" date. If you make another copy to strip the DRM, you will have that DRM free copy, and the "returnable" one, and "return" it early - which is really deleting the file and telling the library "I don't have this book available anymore; you can 'lend' out the book to someone else now". Even if somehow the file with DRM on your computer is deleted, the library would automatically treat the book as "returned" once the return date has passed, since you cannot access the copy on your computer anymore (without stripping the DRM). Checking out a book froma library does something good for the author, though: The library sees people are interested in a book, and the more an author's books are checked out, the more likely it becomes their next book is bought, too. In many countries, authors also get a small reimbursement for library loans (not in the USA, though).

03-28-2011, 06:50 AM	#8
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	ooh, i see. thanks i sure hope there aren't people who keep the drm-free copy to propagate it on the darknet. that'd be a shame.

03-28-2011, 10:28 AM	#11
FF2 Wizard Posts: 1,105 Karma: 1025784 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: WiFi Kindle3	My "expired" library books are still on my computer. They just cannot be read in the ADE program. It is up to me to do the necessary housekeeping (as we use to call it when I was a programmer) - that is I have to erase them from my computer myself. A "by the way" is that even after "expired" but while sitting there, you can still strip the drm and read them - curiousity got me to test this last week.

03-28-2011, 10:38 AM	#12
carpetmojo Wizard Posts: 3,117 Karma: 9269999 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: UK Device: Sony- T3, PRS650, 350, T1/2/3, Paperwhite, Fire 8.9,Samsung Tab S 10.5	There are people who view what you describe as the route to the liberation of the culture. First we free the books, then we free the minds. And then we run out of authors 'cos they can't even make the pittance they were making by writing books................................

03-28-2011, 12:57 PM	#15
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	yeah - that whole Karma thing. Plus you can be fairly confident that your library Overdrive Website isn't going to try and stick a virus on your computer. As for as getting books from Overdrive for the Darknet, I don't know. My 2 Overdrive accounts (local and Singapore) don't usually get the "Bestsellers" until at minimum a week or two after release date. It is extremely rare anymore that they allow you to put in a hold for a book that is yet to be released. I suspect by the time Overdrive has the book available, it's likely already running free on the torrent sites.

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