Crazy Little Things Called Tags

Nyssa · 03-19-2011, 04:32 PM

So, I decided to download the tag metadata for all 500+ e-books I have in Calibre. How amusing!

How many books could one possibly have that needs the tag "Balloon ascensions"?

Are "Bakers", "Bakers & Bakeries", and "Bakeries" really all needed on the same book?

On the other hand, I did learn a new word today - I think!

Bildungsromans
Dictionary.com says:

Quote:

Bil·dungs·ro·man
/ˈbɪldʊŋzroʊˌmɑn; Ger. ˈbildʊŋksrɔˌmɑn/ Show Spelled[bil-doongz-roh-mahn; Ger. beel-doongks-raw-mahn] Show IPA
–noun, plural -mans, German -ma·ne /-ˌmɑnə/ show+spelled">Show Spelled[-mah-nuh] Show IPA.
a type of novel concerned with the education, development, and maturing of a young protagonist.

But its sister site Thesaurus.com says:

Quote:

Main Entry: roman a clef
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: novel disguising real people as characters
Synonyms: Bildungsroman, historical fiction, roman-fleuve, saga

There is also some confusion:

Is Juvenile Fiction - Children's books (under 12), Young Adult books (13-17), or books for anyone who is not an adult (under 18 or under 21)?

And my personal issue: Is there a way to adequately shorten "Fairy Tales; Folk Tales; Legends & Mythology"? I have at least 6 books that ended up being tagged that way; 5 others were tagged "Fairy Tales; Folklore & Mythology".

Add your head-scratchers or tags that made you laugh, groan, run to the dictionary, etc.

ATDrake · 03-19-2011, 10:44 PM

Fairy/Folk Tales; Myths & Legends, perhaps?

As for the definitions of bildungsroman and roman à clef, I'm guessing they're cross-referenced because they each refer to a particular type of literary thematic style using a foreign language term.

After all, you've also got roman-fleuve listed, which according to the Mac dictionary app is "a novel featuring the leisurely description of the lives of closely related people". Though personally, I do not think that "synonym" means what Thesaurus.com thinks it means*.

* Inconceivable!

Nyssa · 03-19-2011, 11:55 PM

*Much love for the Princess Bride reference!

Based on the books that are using the "Bildungsromans" tag, I would agree. Thesaurus.com is off base.

I decided on "Fables/Myths" for the Fairy Tail tags. It doesn't quite encompass Legends or Folklore, but its close enough.

I still have over 400 tags to weed through (the original count was 760-something). I'm as tag-friendly as the next person, but geesh, that's way too many. Thankfully, a lot of them have been either duplicates or oddly specific (like the" balloon ascensions" I mentioned earlier). That has made the job a little easier , but, it still time consuming.

I'd still love to hear what odd or unusual tags others have found when downloading meta-data.

gravespinner · 03-20-2011, 12:51 AM

I just did the opposite. I got rid of as many tags as I could and still be able to group books. I am not sure what I am down to but I culled a bunch of place names. For the most part I don't care about NY or NYC or New York or New Jersey of NJ etc.

I also had to use the dictionary as I had both "Bildungsromans" and "Bildungsroman".

Nyssa · 03-20-2011, 01:01 AM

Welcome to the forum, Gravespinner!

My downloading spree was borne of curiosity, and an idea or two about the books with little to no info. I didn't realize I would be creating a huge project, for myself.

I normally skip the city/country tags as well, but this time my curiosity got the best of me. I wanted to see how many of each state or country there would be. I'm still ignoring specific cities; I'm only looking at the state or country.

Loosheesh · 03-20-2011, 06:32 PM

When managing my books in Calibre, I almost never download tag metadata because (1) there are just too many per book, (2) most of the tags are, IMO, irrelevant and (3) most of them are written in all small letters, whereas I like my tags with initial caps ... I'm OCD like, lol

If for some reason I cannot figure out how to tag a book (in terms of genre) at the time it goes into the library, I just tag it as fiction or non-fiction, with the intention to update later when I learn more about the book.

Nyssa · 03-20-2011, 06:41 PM

All of what you've said is very true, but I don't mind fixing the issues.

Issues #1 & #2 do take some time for weeding, but my OCD makes sure its done. #3 is easy enough to change with editing. Plus, Ive found that more often than not they do start with a capital letter. I haven't had to change many for that issue.

You are more patient than I am with the last one; I hate leaving incomplete tags due to lack of information. It just bothers me.

As to my little project, I think it is finished for a while. I whittled down the 760+ to 185. Its still much more than my original number, but I'm okay with it for now. I'll probably do some more fine tuning at a later date - I'm tired of looking at them.

Loosheesh · 03-20-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyssa

You are more patient than I am with the last one; I hate leaving incomplete tags due to lack of information. It just bothers me.

When I first started using Calibre, I had over 1500 ebooks to catalog at once - I learnt early on to pick my battles

Nyssa · 03-20-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loosheesh

When I first started using Calibre, I had over 1500 ebooks to catalog at once - I learnt early on to pick up battles

Wow! Impressive!

I "only" have 530, but even that can be time consuming when you're trying to work with everything at once.

Shimarenda · 03-21-2011, 02:47 PM

I once listed a bunch of my books on an online site; it may have been GoodReads. My first indication of the problems with community tagging came when doing a listing for Sun Tzu's Art of War. The most popular tag for an English translation of the work itself? "Business."

As one who works in a library cataloging department, it both amuses and concerns me to watch IT professionals and web theorists discuss countering the prodigality of tagging with the invention some sort of controlled vocabulary to indicate the subject of an item. I seriously can't tell if they are aware of subject headings or not since they they talk like they have discovered some new concept.

Nyssa · 03-21-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimarenda

I once listed a bunch of my books on an online site; it may have been GoodReads. My first indication of the problems with community tagging came when doing a listing for Sun Tzu's Art of War. The most popular tag for an English translation of the work itself? "Business."

Business? Really? Well, if war is their business......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimarenda

As one who works in a library cataloging department, it both amuses and concerns me to watch IT professionals and web theorists discuss countering the prodigality of tagging with the invention some sort of controlled vocabulary to indicate the subject of an item. I seriously can't tell if they are aware of subject headings or not since they they talk like they have discovered some new concept.

What is even sadder is when Librarians/Media specialist can't even get it right. I volunteer in the library at the school my children attend; they have a very good Media Specialist (she actually reads the books). She is constantly telling me stories about what some of the other media specialists, librarians and library clerks have done in the past - its not always pretty.

alecE · 03-21-2011, 05:55 PM

[QUOTE=Shimarenda;1455684...As one who works in a library cataloging department, it both amuses and concerns me to watch IT professionals and web theorists discuss countering the prodigality of tagging with the invention some sort of controlled vocabulary to indicate the subject of an item. I seriously can't tell if they are aware of subject headings or not since they they talk like they have discovered some new concept.[/QUOTE]

But on the other hand, it's going to be so much fun watching them make all the same old mistakes that we were taught to avoid in library school

Fwiw, being an ex-cataloguer myself, I've established a very sparse & simple tagging vocabulary for my Calibre library - it can always be expanded over time!

Hellmark · 03-21-2011, 06:52 PM

I personally strip tags out immediately, keeping only the series info in Calibre. Reason for this, is on my 505 the series info and tags both show up under Collections, and it got to be a mess in a hurry. Some publishers have like 50 different tags for each book, which is crazy. In no time at all, I had page after page of listings in Collections, yet at the time I had very very few books on the ereader.

Nyssa · 03-21-2011, 08:30 PM

Cut another 20 tags today...all from the same book, if you can believe that! I had added it after I was done with all of the other books, so I didn't notice until today. The author had decided to add all of the other authors she could think of, that were in the same genre and/or possibly with the same style.

hrynkiw · 03-24-2011, 03:04 PM

I've got one to offer: "Police procedural".

Huh?

(This tag was accompanied on the same book by: Police, Policewoman, Policewomen, Police department, Police departments, and Police cars. Fer cryin' out loud, enough with the police already.)

The one tag I don't understand is "General". Why bother? It might as well say "Tag". Who searches for "General"?

03-20-2011, 06:41 PM	#7
Nyssa Series Addict Posts: 6,180 Karma: 167189477 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Florida, USA Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Gen)	All of what you've said is very true, but I don't mind fixing the issues. Issues #1 & #2 do take some time for weeding, but my OCD makes sure its done. #3 is easy enough to change with editing. Plus, Ive found that more often than not they do start with a capital letter. I haven't had to change many for that issue. You are more patient than I am with the last one; I hate leaving incomplete tags due to lack of information. It just bothers me. As to my little project, I think it is finished for a while. I whittled down the 760+ to 185. Its still much more than my original number, but I'm okay with it for now. I'll probably do some more fine tuning at a later date - I'm tired of looking at them. Last edited by Nyssa; 03-21-2011 at 07:54 PM. Reason: typo (true not try)

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03-19-2011, 10:44 PM	#2
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	Fairy/Folk Tales; Myths & Legends, perhaps? As for the definitions of bildungsroman and roman à clef, I'm guessing they're cross-referenced because they each refer to a particular type of literary thematic style using a foreign language term. After all, you've also got roman-fleuve listed, which according to the Mac dictionary app is "a novel featuring the leisurely description of the lives of closely related people". Though personally, I do not think that "synonym" means what Thesaurus.com thinks it means. Inconceivable!

03-19-2011, 11:55 PM	#3
Nyssa Series Addict Posts: 6,180 Karma: 167189477 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Florida, USA Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Gen)	Much love for the Princess Bride* reference! Based on the books that are using the "Bildungsromans" tag, I would agree. Thesaurus.com is off base. I decided on "Fables/Myths" for the Fairy Tail tags. It doesn't quite encompass Legends or Folklore, but its close enough. I still have over 400 tags to weed through (the original count was 760-something). I'm as tag-friendly as the next person, but geesh, that's way too many. Thankfully, a lot of them have been either duplicates or oddly specific (like the" balloon ascensions" I mentioned earlier). That has made the job a little easier , but, it still time consuming. I'd still love to hear what odd or unusual tags others have found when downloading meta-data.

03-20-2011, 12:51 AM	#4
gravespinner Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: PRS650, bricked PRS-T1, KOBO Glo x2	I just did the opposite. I got rid of as many tags as I could and still be able to group books. I am not sure what I am down to but I culled a bunch of place names. For the most part I don't care about NY or NYC or New York or New Jersey of NJ etc. I also had to use the dictionary as I had both "Bildungsromans" and "Bildungsroman".

03-20-2011, 01:01 AM	#5
Nyssa Series Addict Posts: 6,180 Karma: 167189477 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Florida, USA Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Gen)	Welcome to the forum, Gravespinner! My downloading spree was borne of curiosity, and an idea or two about the books with little to no info. I didn't realize I would be creating a huge project, for myself. I normally skip the city/country tags as well, but this time my curiosity got the best of me. I wanted to see how many of each state or country there would be. I'm still ignoring specific cities; I'm only looking at the state or country.

03-20-2011, 06:32 PM	#6
Loosheesh Wizard Posts: 1,679 Karma: 3111989 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Jianghu Device: PW1, PW5, iPhone SE 2016, iPhone 13 Pro, iPad Pro 9.7, iPad Pro 2021	When managing my books in Calibre, I almost never download tag metadata because (1) there are just too many per book, (2) most of the tags are, IMO, irrelevant and (3) most of them are written in all small letters, whereas I like my tags with initial caps ... I'm OCD like, lol If for some reason I cannot figure out how to tag a book (in terms of genre) at the time it goes into the library, I just tag it as fiction or non-fiction, with the intention to update later when I learn more about the book.

03-21-2011, 02:47 PM	#10
Shimarenda Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 68186 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Athens, Georgia Device: Kindle 3, Nook Tablet	I once listed a bunch of my books on an online site; it may have been GoodReads. My first indication of the problems with community tagging came when doing a listing for Sun Tzu's Art of War. The most popular tag for an English translation of the work itself? "Business." As one who works in a library cataloging department, it both amuses and concerns me to watch IT professionals and web theorists discuss countering the prodigality of tagging with the invention some sort of controlled vocabulary to indicate the subject of an item. I seriously can't tell if they are aware of subject headings or not since they they talk like they have discovered some new concept.

03-21-2011, 05:55 PM	#12
alecE Evangelist Posts: 412 Karma: 546196 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK canal boat Device: sony prs505, prs650, kobo Glo HD liseuses	[QUOTE=Shimarenda;1455684...As one who works in a library cataloging department, it both amuses and concerns me to watch IT professionals and web theorists discuss countering the prodigality of tagging with the invention some sort of controlled vocabulary to indicate the subject of an item. I seriously can't tell if they are aware of subject headings or not since they they talk like they have discovered some new concept.[/QUOTE] But on the other hand, it's going to be so much fun watching them make all the same old mistakes that we were taught to avoid in library school Fwiw, being an ex-cataloguer myself, I've established a very sparse & simple tagging vocabulary for my Calibre library - it can always be expanded over time!

03-21-2011, 06:52 PM	#13
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,586 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	I personally strip tags out immediately, keeping only the series info in Calibre. Reason for this, is on my 505 the series info and tags both show up under Collections, and it got to be a mess in a hurry. Some publishers have like 50 different tags for each book, which is crazy. In no time at all, I had page after page of listings in Collections, yet at the time I had very very few books on the ereader.

03-21-2011, 08:30 PM	#14
Nyssa Series Addict Posts: 6,180 Karma: 167189477 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Florida, USA Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Gen)	Cut another 20 tags today...all from the same book, if you can believe that! I had added it after I was done with all of the other books, so I didn't notice until today. The author had decided to add all of the other authors she could think of, that were in the same genre and/or possibly with the same style.

03-24-2011, 03:04 PM	#15
hrynkiw Connoisseur Posts: 74 Karma: 154 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greater Vancouver, Canada Device: Kindle Paperwhite 10, iPhone, iPad	I've got one to offer: "Police procedural". Huh? (This tag was accompanied on the same book by: Police, Policewoman, Policewomen, Police department, Police departments, and Police cars. Fer cryin' out loud, enough with the police already.) The one tag I don't understand is "General". Why bother? It might as well say "Tag". Who searches for "General"?

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