The behavior of Apple

[leebase]

http://kevinrose.com/

Sometimes there's a good reason to be a fanboy.

Lee

[DixieGal]

I hope this is true. And i hope it is not unique.

[patrickt]

I still won't buy from Apple.

[Worldwalker]

A company kept its stores open late to serve its customers, and in the process introduced its products to many prospective customers.

I don't see the mind-blowing charity here. Just a business doing business in a time of opportunity.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I still won't buy from Apple.

Fanboy.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

A company kept its stores open late to serve its customers, and in the process introduced its products to many prospective customers.

I don't see the mind-blowing charity here. Just a business doing business in a time of opportunity.

It's fine to ignore the rest of the story-how Apple is also taking care of its own staff people-just business doing business in a time of opportunity, right?

Only thing sadder than knee jerk fanboyism is knee jerk cynicism.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by kjk

It's fine to ignore the rest of the story-how Apple is also taking care of its own staff people-just business doing business in a time of opportunity, right?

They're a smart business. They're doing things that will keep them in business and encourage future business. Yep, it's a business taking advantage of an opportunity (introducing non-Apple customers to their products, boosting their public image) and ensuring that the staff they need will remain available when they need them.

Only thing sadder than knee jerk fanboyism is knee jerk cynicism.

You've heard the old question "Is it paranoia when they really are out to get you?" Well, is it cynicism when businesses really do have a legal obligation to maximize their value to stockholders, and therefore to take those actions, and only those actions, which do so?

If the employees and management of Apple stood up to their board and their stockholders, and said "yes, this thing we're proposing doing is going to lower the value of the company, but we're doing it because it's the right thing to do" I'd admire them. But doing something that's best for Apple -- doing well by appearing good -- is just business as usual for a global corporation. It's not worthy of any special praise.

[elcreative]

Worldwalker, you really have sunk below curmudgeon now... did you even read the OP and its link... they weren't selling people stuff, they were letting them use it for NOTHING, letting them stay for NOTHING, letting them charge their own equipment for NOTHING... of course nobody can ever be altruistic according to you... as I've said elsewhere, I used to respect and like some of your posts but everything your posting in this and other threads, related to the Japanese disasters, is plain nasty...

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

They're a smart business. They're doing things that will keep them in business and encourage future business. Yep, it's a business taking advantage of an opportunity (introducing non-Apple customers to their products, boosting their public image) and ensuring that the staff they need will remain available when they need them.

Oh, BS - you're just bending over backwards to try and twist anything they do into selfishness. Somehow I don't think that they needed a huge amount of staff on hand to deal with all of the people who decided that a huge natural disaster was the time to buy a mac.

You've heard the old question "Is it paranoia when they really are out to get you?" Well, is it cynicism when businesses really do have a legal obligation to maximize their value to stockholders, and therefore to take those actions, and only those actions, which do so?

Companies are not required to only take actions which benefit shareholder value.

If the employees and management of Apple stood up to their board and their stockholders, and said "yes, this thing we're proposing doing is going to lower the value of the company, but we're doing it because it's the right thing to do" I'd admire them. But doing something that's best for Apple -- doing well by appearing good -- is just business as usual for a global corporation. It's not worthy of any special praise.

Apple is actually doing good here. The fact that your dislike of the company has impaired your reason to the extent that you can't even see this is sad.

[HarryT]

How nice to hear a good news story associated with the unpleasantness of recent events in Japan. Thanks to the original poster for sharing this with us.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by kjk

It's fine to ignore the rest of the story-how Apple is also taking care of its own staff people-just business doing business in a time of opportunity, right?

Only thing sadder than knee jerk fanboyism is knee jerk cynicism.

I saw an interview once with the CEO of a company, who said that taking care of his customers was his #3 priority, not #1. #1 was taking care of his employees, and #2 was taking care of his vendors. Not because he was a nice guy, but because it was good business (in his words, "If I take care of #1 and #2, #3 is already taken care of").

The company in question was Kingston Technology, the biggest memory manufacturer in the world, and the only US company that could compete with the asian manufacturers.

Because taking care of your employees is good business.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

They're a smart business. They're doing things that will keep them in business and encourage future business. Yep, it's a business taking advantage of an opportunity (introducing non-Apple customers to their products, boosting their public image) and ensuring that the staff they need will remain available when they need them.



You've heard the old question "Is it paranoia when they really are out to get you?" Well, is it cynicism when businesses really do have a legal obligation to maximize their value to stockholders, and therefore to take those actions, and only those actions, which do so?

If the employees and management of Apple stood up to their board and their stockholders, and said "yes, this thing we're proposing doing is going to lower the value of the company, but we're doing it because it's the right thing to do" I'd admire them. But doing something that's best for Apple -- doing well by appearing good -- is just business as usual for a global corporation. It's not worthy of any special praise.

Giving a damn about your employees is, indeed, very good business. The very best way to run a company.

In my experience, however, it is utterly impossible to fake it. If you pretend to care, your best employees will bail on your faster than if you locked them in cages at night and whipped them to work every morning. They will know if you don't really mean it.

There's no conflict here, and that seems to be what you take issue with. Because they are not lowering the value of the company, they are significantly increasing it. As Japan recovers, their employees will remember this, and do anything they possibly can to promote the business. The customers, and people who would never have even thought of being customers before, they will remember it, too.

Sometimes, doing the right thing is easy, because it's the right thing in every way.

[CallOfCth'reader]

Originally Posted by taustin

Sometimes, doing the right thing is easy, because it's the right thing in every way.

Your post pre-empted a reply I was going to make, but much more eloquently than mine would have been.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by elcreative

...I used to respect and like some of your posts but everything your posting in this and other threads, related to the Japanese disasters, is plain nasty...

"Nasty" because I supported someone who suggested donating money to charities helping out in Japan?

"Nasty" because I suggested a charity that does good work?

"Nasty" because I disagreed with an Apple astroturfer who mocked the idea of waiting to buy an iPad and helping the people of Japan instead?

Or just "nasty" because I think Apple is doing what a corporation is in business to do, in the way a corporation is in business to do it, and has not earned special praise for acting in its own best interests?

By the way, I neither like nor dislike Apple. I don't think their products happen to be products that I want. I don't think Ford sells cars I want, either. I own a Sony Reader, not a Kindle, a Nook, etc., because it fit my needs the best. That's just business. Now, I do dislike Dell. If you want to hear me go off on a company for being a bunch of slimeballs, ask me for my Dell tech support stories. Or just say "everyone should buy Dell stuff instead of donating money to earthquake relief" and I'll be glad to chime in. I dislike Dell, and for good reason. But that is a rarity for me. Apple is just one of the millions of companies that doesn't sell things I'm buying.

What ticks me off is astroturfing. When people pretend to be just satisfied customers, but somehow they are always and only satisfied with one specific company (or in one case the shared policies of companies in one specific industry) I get very suspicious. No company ... in fact, nothing in the real world ... is made of unicorns and rainbows, and when someone tries to pretend that the one they're supporting is, that sets off warning bells.

As for Apple's response to the earthquake: Apple does what's best for Apple. If they can make it look like it's good for other people, too, that's even better for Apple. This is nothing special. Every company does exactly the same thing, with varying degrees of success; hell, most people do the same thing, except for their immediate families (and sometimes even then). The only difference is Apple has astroturfers and the fanboys who follow them out in large numbers, playing up the positive aspects of everything Apple does. They're no better, and probably no worse, than the average company in their demographic, but they are very, very good at making themselves look better. It's skillful marketing, and I can admire that, but I don't persuade myself that it's anything but marketing.

By the way, "I used to like you but you broke my secret rules so now I don't" belongs in Barrens chat, not in a mature discussion.

Originally Posted by taustin

As Japan recovers, their employees will remember this, and do anything they possibly can to promote the business. The customers, and people who would never have even thought of being customers before, they will remember it, too.

Exactly. This is a golden opportunity for Apple. Every one of those people using Apple's wi-fi, charging their devices in Apple stores, etc., will think better of Apple for the opportunity. People who might not have even considered buying from Apple will remember this the next time they go out to buy a computer or a phone or an MP3 player. Whatever it costs them to keep the stores open a bit later and provide electricity to the people with something to charge, they will make back many times over. It's advertising they can't buy. Yeah, that's a cynical way to look at it, but it's also an accurate way to look at it.

Companies aren't staffed by rainbow-colored unicorns; they're staffed by people who want to see more money come into that company so they can get raises and promotions so their lives will be better. The money goes to the stockholders, including the upper management, who want the short-term prices of their stock to increase so they can sell it at a profit and, again, get more money (though I have to wonder, in some cases, if one's life is really noticeably better with 110 million dollars instead of merely 100 million ... but I am cynical that way). Apple is good at getting people to like them, and having their supporters (paid and unpaid) loudly promoting anything the company does is one way to do that. But they don't do it to be nice; they do it to make money. Every company does what they do to make money, right down to the person with a self-published ebook they want to sell. If they don't, they go out of business, and their employees are out on the street. That's kind of what capitalism is all about.

By the way, Andrew, I didn't argue that Apple isn't doing good. Of course they are. But they're doing good because it's best for them, not because they've got glittery unicorns in the home office. I'm sure there are many other companies in Japan doing everything they can, too; they just don't have people to publicize it for them.

No company "does it all for you"; they don't do anything for you. They do things for themselves, and it doesn't matter, in a business sense, if it's good for you or not, so long as you give them your money. Apple isn't a charity. LG, who made the monitor I'm looking at, isn't a charity. Ty, who made the little stuffed monitor lizard sitting on my monitor, certainly isn't a charity (to the point I'm glad I got the lizard at a yard sale). They're all there to do what's best for themselves, not anybody else. It may include doing what's best for somebody else along the way, but that's an incidental, not the goal, and it could just as easily be the exact opposite.

Forget that at your peril.

[elcreative]

Worldwalker... still can't read straight... I NEVER said "I used to like you," I said, "I used to like some of your posts." Big difference as I would never say the first, and have always had difficulty in regarding many of your posts as mature since they come across rather more as diatribes... enjoy your world but don't expect it to infect everyone else's...