PRS-650 Unplugging USB - warning!

[Neon Kitten]

Less than 24 hours after getting my 650 I'm already spending time troubleshooting the various problems it has with sync via the Reader Library software, which should provide the same kind of no-hassles sync experience as, say, iTunes does with its devices. But having already encountered the multiple-copies bug several times and ultimately having had to format the reader's memory and start again, I have observed something that might explain things. Maybe.

The multiple-copies thing started after the first few syncs went flawlessly and I'd shut down the Library software, waited for "do not disconnect" to vanish and unplugged the 650. A while later I wanted to add some more books, so I added them to my library, reconnected the 650 and let sync start. It failed on the first book, hanging for some time and then throwing up an error that the device was inaccessible. Thing is, the device WAS accessible, and I could see it in Windows and in the Library software just fine. Shut down Library, unplugged, re-plugged into a different USB port, synced again, and got the duplicates... and then another "device can't be accessed" error.

Then after connecting it a third time, Windows 7 threw up a warning that there were errors on the volume "READER" and insisted I do a scan. I did, and it found truncated database files and other file system errors. This is the point where I reformatted again - but before doing so, I checked the write-caching setting for the 650's drives. And both were set to "Optimise for performance", a setting usually NOT used for removable media because it delays writes to the drives. But trying to change it to "Optimise for quick removal" failed - Windows 7 said the device was hard-locked to its delayed-write setting.

What this means in plain English is that if you want to avoid corrupting the reader's file system, you MUST do a "Safely Remove Hardware" (from the system tray in win7) on both the reader's active drives. Since doing that I have had zero problems, though I have more testing to do with the Library software tonight.

This is incredibly bad design for a removable user-writeable disk device. Sony needs to fix this ASAP. As an example, even less frequently removed drives such as my Western Digital MyBook automatically set themselves to "Quick removal", since WD knows all too well that the alternative is data loss.

[adityadubey]

Thanks for the heads up. Although I have borderline OCD with unplugging devices so I haven't encountered these errors so far. One other thing I've noticed is that if you're using Calibre to sync and load stuff, when you eject it from Calibre, it automatically ejects it from Windows, i.e. the tray icon for removable media disappears. But yeah, it would be nice if Sony could fix this and make these things more seamless. I wonder if a firmware update or something could sort out these issues? Any clues?

[Seanette]

Originally Posted by Neon Kitten

This is incredibly bad design for a removable user-writeable disk device. Sony needs to fix this ASAP. As an example, even less frequently removed drives such as my Western Digital MyBook automatically set themselves to "Quick removal", since WD knows all too well that the alternative is data loss.

I have a Western Digital external hard drive (not sure of model) I use for backing up my Vista laptop and XP desktop. How do you set that "quick removal" option, or is that specific to the MyBook model?

[babyd]

you are supposed to eject it using the reader software before closing the library, same as with calibre. If you do this you will not encounter any issues. The eject button is the arrow next to the reader icon in the left pane.......

[Neon Kitten]

Originally Posted by Seanette

I have a Western Digital external hard drive (not sure of model) I use for backing up my Vista laptop and XP desktop. How do you set that "quick removal" option, or is that specific to the MyBook model?

Quick-removal is (sensibly) set by default on WD external drives (as well as pretty much every USB flash drive and device).

You can check it on Windows 7 this way:

* Control Panel / Device Manager

* Expand "Disk Drives"

* Double-click the drive you want to check

* Go to "Policies" tab

Removal policy is indicated right there. For removable USB drives of any kind you want "Quick Removal". The performance increase using the "better performance" option is not worth the risk of losing files if you forget to do the safe-removal thing before unplugging it.

However the Reader will not allow its "Better Performance" setting to be changed.

Originally Posted by babyd

you are supposed to eject it using the reader software before closing the library, same as with calibre. If you do this you will not encounter any issues. The eject button is the arrow next to the reader icon in the left pane.......

Yep, I was using the eject button each time. It's a bad and user-unfriendly method, though. If the device was optimised for quick removal, when the "do not disconnect" warning disappeared from the Reader's screen, you could just unplug it without any danger. This is how iPhone/iPod etc behaves.

I didn't check to see if the drive remained active in Windows AFTER ejecting though. I'm inclined to think, based on the file system damage I saw, that it does.

I shall check this and report back.

[lack]

Every sensible usb device is to be removed by those steps you just mentioned,
and iTunes, Calibre and others are just sugar coating the steps for you. iTunes made one more step in abstracting this to you, the user, cause if you have iTunes installed, plug your iPod or any iDevice you had and it will not show under windows as a disk drive.

And I believe any iDevice MUST be ejected by the very same iTunes before unplugging physically.

I've had some bitter experiences removing my iPod using device manager and not iTunes, and even with iTunes I've had a problem or two. Bricked and returned my iPod 1 time, made it unable to boot countless times (There I learned the press mid and up the same time to reset trick)

What I'm saying is, the usb defines a standard, and it is to be followed by vendors manufacturing their device. however this standard also governs enumerating usb functions which the device capable of, and while I have not checked it seems from your post that sony reader doesn't support "quick removal", then it should not be used that way. Be that sony SHOULD support it, I wouldn't know, but if they don't then that's it.

Regarding the software,
I don't use sony library software so I can't really advise more, but I can recommend Calibre. I fired up calibre, plug my reader, and it recognized it. Do it the other way around and it will still recognized it. Before unplugging tell calibre to eject it, and then I unplug it physically. No problems. I DO however, check that little usb safe remove icon, and see that the reader is no longer there. You can trust me on my word that it was not there every single time. There are times when I do not use calibre, so I just unplug manually. Therefore I never need to be bothered to see what's on my reader's screen, I just pull the cable.

If this is true, however, that sony library software does not safely remove the device when told to eject, then it is more of the reason not to use sony library software at all. I cringe in horror every time I hear the word "sony" and "software" be used in the same sentence. I know I had prejudice problem, but it is not baseless.

[SeaBookGuy]

I am used to having to go through Safely Remove Hardware for my mp3 player anyway, so doing that with the e-reader is nothing new for me - it adds what ... a couple of extra seconds?

[doreenjoy]

Originally Posted by babyd

you are supposed to eject it using the reader software before closing the library, same as with calibre. If you do this you will not encounter any issues. The eject button is the arrow next to the reader icon in the left pane.......

That's what I do and I've never had the problem with the doubled books.

[MaxLV]

Originally Posted by Neon Kitten

Less than 24 hours after getting my 650 I'm already spending time troubleshooting the various problems it has with sync via the Reader Library software, which should provide the same kind of no-hassles sync experience as, say, iTunes does with its devices. But having already encountered the multiple-copies bug several times and ultimately having had to format the reader's memory and start again, I have observed something that might explain things. Maybe.

The multiple-copies thing started after the first few syncs went flawlessly and I'd shut down the Library software, waited for "do not disconnect" to vanish and unplugged the 650. A while later I wanted to add some more books, so I added them to my library, reconnected the 650 and let sync start. It failed on the first book, hanging for some time and then throwing up an error that the device was inaccessible. Thing is, the device WAS accessible, and I could see it in Windows and in the Library software just fine. Shut down Library, unplugged, re-plugged into a different USB port, synced again, and got the duplicates... and then another "device can't be accessed" error.

Two things.

Firstly you DO need to eject the reader either with the library software (of your choice) before disconnecting it.

Windows needs to know the USB device is going to be disconnected so it can stop reading and writting to it.

Secondly, you say 'had to' format the readers memory and start again.

How did you do this?

If you did it with windows explorer, then it's not surprising you ended up with Windows saying the device had lots of file errors and became inaccessible.

The operating system on the Sony Ereaders is MontaVista Linux
and it uses a linux file system.

Internal OS
According to the operating manual the Reader (PRS 650) runs the MontaVista Linux Professional Edition operating system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Reader


Formating the readers memory via Windows will be an NTFS format and most likely not work properly and certainly wont be compatiable with the readers OS or file system.

The better option would be to reset the reader by pushing the reset button and reload your books again with the library software.

I would recomend Calibre, I have been using it since I got my PRS 650, haven't used the Sony library software at all, and only use ADE to download purchased books which I then copy to Calibre to load on the reader.
I ALWAYS eject the reader in Calibre before unplgging it, as Windows 7 on all my computers see it as a connected and active USB device until it is ejected.

[Mark Nord]

Originally Posted by MaxLV

If you did it with windows explorer, then it's not surprising you ended up with Windows saying the device had lots of file errors and became inaccessible.

The operating system on the Sony Ereaders is MontaVista Linux
and it uses a linux file system.

Internal OS
According to the operating manual the Reader (PRS 650) runs the MontaVista Linux Professional Edition operating system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Reader


Formating the readers memory via Windows will be an NTFS format and most likely not work properly and certainly wont be compatiable with the readers OS or file system.

You are correct with the latter. Sony PRS runs Linux.
But the filesystem exposed to a PC or MAC, the branch \Data\ is mounted as VFAT, so you are perfectly right to format or CHKDSK it form within Windows.

[MaxLV]

Originally Posted by Mark Nord

You are correct with the latter. Sony PRS runs Linux.
But the filesystem exposed to a PC or MAC, the branch \Data\ is mounted as VFAT, so you are perfectly right to format or CHKDSK it form within Windows.

Windows 7 sees the reader as a FAT32 device in windows explorer.
You are using Windows 7 right?

To start with a Windows format would ignore the Readers Operating system and File System permissions, [try to] format to the default sectors, tracks, cluster size, etc. It's seeing the reader as a removable USB hard drive remember.

It's not surprising that the readers operating system can no longer work properly after an attempted Windows format and that Windows then thinks the device has numerous file system and drive errors because the Linux operating system has tried (and failed) to restore the file system back to the way it should be.

It is NOT a good idea (as you have found out) to format any device with windows when that device has it's own Operating System and file system.

Use the device's OS to format if you can. For the Sony Reader it is:

Options
Initialisation
and either...
Restore defaults or Format memory.

If you cant even get to the options menu by pushing the Options button, then try the Reset button first.

If that doesn't work then you have [most likely] 'bricked' it by trying to format it with Windows and will most likely have to send it back to Sony to fix.

[Mark Nord]

Sorry MaxLV,

by repeating it over and over again, your statement will not become right!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by MaxLV

It is NOT a good idea (as you have found out) to format any device with windows when that device has it's own Operating System and file system.

This really isn't true. Pretty much every reader exposes a FAT or FAT32 volume to the outside world, and formatting it from a PC is absolutely fine. It's a completely normal thing to do on many devices.

[Doogman]

Just to beat on this dead horse a bit longer, here's the filesystem on my Sony 350:

ghidorah ~ # file -sL /dev/sdd
/dev/sdd: x86 boot sector, mkdosfs boot message display, code offset 0x58, OEM-ID " mkdosfs", sectors/cluster 8, reserved sectors 36, Media descriptor 0xf8, heads 255, sectors 3141376 (volumes > 32 MB) , FAT (32 bit), sectors/FAT 3062, serial number 0x3e, label: "READER     "

And, of course, it is vfat. If the filesystem was something more esoteric, then Win boxes wouldn't be able to read it.

[icewyche]

Originally Posted by babyd

you are supposed to eject it using the reader software before closing the library, same as with calibre. If you do this you will not encounter any issues. The eject button is the arrow next to the reader icon in the left pane.......

Closing the Reader Library software also ejects the Reader. I've done both and never had a problem.