04-20-2010, 01:56 PM | #16 |
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File Sharing (of copyright materials w/o permission) = providing someone else's work, to a person who isn't paying for it, w/o the possibility of recompense to the owner of the copyright
If a person wants to give away their own work, fine, but they shouldn't allow themselves to use technology to take that decision away from others. William |
04-20-2010, 03:46 PM | #17 | |
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A book like "Gone with the Wind" (1936) written by Margaret Munnerlyn Mitchell (November 8, 1900 – August 16, 1949) and still in publication, I also agree - theft of income. But if there is a book that has not been published in the last 20-30 years. NO, I would now convict anyone of theft in those conditions. I have had the misfortune of meeting a few (VERY few thankfully) that honestly believe that a person, no mater how old or young, shall go to hell for knowingly stealing anything, even a paperclip. NO forgiveness - HELL. If I'm wrong then I'm going to hell. It's too late now for me to return those little office thingies that went home in my pocket, pens, thumb tacks, etc. So I STRONGLY disagree with you that it is ALWAYS wrong. You may say "So what, Im' still right". To which I say "Naa, naa, na naaaa naaaaa, the books downloaded were so bad that I deleted them anyway". And that was my earlier point. If you go looking for "out of print" ebooks on the web you will not offend B&N. It will make their books look better, typos and all. Heck, if I were to "steal" an ebook it would be "Under the Eagle" by Simon Scarrow. It is only available over seas. If I could buy it I would. But I will not download it for free. That's just me. I'll condemn no one else. |
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04-20-2010, 06:06 PM | #18 |
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Not true at all. If it is downloaded there is the possibility of future sales, assuming the product is good enough. Whereas if it is not downloaded there is no possibility of a sale.
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04-21-2010, 09:42 AM | #19 |
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Whether or not payment is involved has nothing to do with whether or not it's copyright infringement.
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04-21-2010, 09:44 AM | #20 | |
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The loss of a potential sale is very different from "theft of income". |
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04-21-2010, 10:09 AM | #21 |
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In Australia and Canada, Gone with the Wind is PD, and one can download it from PG Australia for free. In fact, Mitchell's heirs sued PG Australia and lost. Here in the US, under the laws in place when she wrote it, it should have been in the PD in 1984, but because of the two copyright extensions, this book won't be PD until 2031, assuming Disney and other corporate IP holders don't again lobby Congress into extending copyright for another lifetime or two. It may be theft of income to you and Mitchell's heirs, but I'm not going to be outraged by someone in the US illegally downloading it from PG Australia.
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04-21-2010, 03:28 PM | #22 | |
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But when I Google "theft of income" law, I get 643 listings. Maybe not a lot by Googles standards but enough to show that the term is not unknown. In fact it may be entirely inaccurately used be me and many others. As in "All About Copyrights" "On the ethical question, the artist is entitled to receive income from the sale of the product. Pirating by making copies of existing music, or making arrangements or other alterations to the music and text, results in the loss of sales and theft of income to the publisher and the artist." Or the SAA. "Without a more concerted, diligent effort, infringements will continue to create unrecoverable theft of income for both." "North Dakota Department of Health Division of Health Facilities" "Financial abuse fits into one of two general categories – theft of income or theft of assets." "Prepared Remarks of Acting Deputy Attorney General Craig Morford" "This was theft not only of the services of the provider, but also the intellectual property of the original producers of movies, sporting events, and other programs. And it was theft of income from ...." OLX Job search -Wanted Attorney — Washington DC "Wanted attorney for littigation , involving an estate ( class) . Oil Producing real estate (apparent seizure of control ,theft of income by fraudulent means ) . Assault with injury by hotel employees (multinational luxury chain ) trisodium phosphate , tripotassium phosphate in cereal (detergent / industrial cleaner )" I am not a lawyer, AND NO NOT WANT TO BE. Lay people (Adj. (DEF 2): Not of or from a profession) will say that so or so murdered someone. Legally that may be wrong because the law breaks it down to murder in the [blank] degree. "If you are shopping for a pBook but decide not to buy it, is that theft of income too?" Sophism. If you will acquire something by simply taking it, then yes. If you wish to be pedantic about common usage of words on this site all I can do is to place you on my "ignore list". Last edited by HorridRedDog; 04-21-2010 at 05:39 PM. |
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04-21-2010, 03:41 PM | #23 | |
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Personally I think that the copyright should last for 20 to 40 years. If I was a REAL big author I would probably say a 1,000 years. |
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04-21-2010, 07:26 PM | #24 |
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Sure there is-but it's not what we're talking about here. (Theft of income would be somebody stealing my paycheck.)
An interesting analogy (to what we're actually talking about) is 'theft of service'. That is legally defined although, from what I've read, the definition doesn't quite fit copyright infringement-but it's the closest 'theft' definition I can think of. |
04-21-2010, 07:29 PM | #25 | |
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04-21-2010, 09:47 PM | #26 |
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04-21-2010, 10:12 PM | #27 | |
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Then they of course went away, given that the request for evidence is impossible to do. |
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04-21-2010, 10:37 PM | #28 | |
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I feel like I've missed large portions of the conversation that you are referring to. |
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04-21-2010, 11:20 PM | #29 | |
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04-22-2010, 12:37 AM | #30 | |
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I have no sympathy for any lost income for Margaret Mitchell's heirs. Margaret Mitchell was dead for 29 years when the book's copyright was extended the first time in the US, from 1992 to 2011 (like that would encourage her to produce new works), and then again to 2031. The big IP owners stole 39 years of public domain from us, just so they could make money on less than 1% of all of copyright material. Getting back on topic, I wouldn't be surprised if the darknet site's advertising was served by a legitimate advertiser, like Google Adwords, and because the page had some keyword like book, Barnes & Noble's ad was served. I agree with Kali Yuga (there's a first time for everything), that "It is ironic, but almost certainly unintentional." |
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