Software differences between 4th, 5th, 6th, & 7th generation Touch/Paperwhite Kindles

[avid01]

Kindle Touch's (4th Generation) latest software is 5.3.7.3

Kindle Paperwhite's (5th Generation) latest software is 5.6.1.1

Kindle Paperwhite's (6th Generation) latest software is 5.8.9.2

Kindle Paperwhite's (7th Generation) latest software is 5.8.9.2

From this, we can conclude that at least the 6th and 7th generation Paperwhite devices are identical from the inside. But that's not my main interest. I'm curious about two things

- Has there been any improvement in the user interface from the 4th through the 5th to 6th and 7th generation of touchscreen Kindles? If so, what has improved? What would you still improve in generation 8th (edit: maybe it will be called the 9th generation), basic touch device with backlight ($119 with ads) softwarewise?

- Are there any annoying bugs left in the 4th and 5th version? I for one have the non-touch Kindle 4, with some pretty annoying user interface decisions and bugs, but I can still live with them somehow until something new is on the horizon.

The two main aspects of the user interface for me are the ease of use of the dictionary, highlighting, and note taking. Of course, you may find other aspects of the interface more important. You are welcome to do so!

A collector with all the above devices to the rescue?

That would greatly help.

[knc1]

Originally Posted by avid01

- - - -
From this, we can conclude that at least the 6th and 7th generation Paperwhite devices are identical from the inside.
- - - - -

Version 5.8.9.2 is also current for the 8th generation devices.

No, you can't conclude that they are identical from the inside or from the outside.
They are not.

Even when you extend your comparison to include same version, same build number, you can not conclude that they are identical in any way.

All you can conclude is the firmware is written to be flexible enough to detect what it is running on and adapt accordingly at run time.

For instance:
The version of Linux running on your e-book will (and does) run on Cray supercomputers.
Are you saying that those two devices are "identical inside" ?

- - - -

Please define how you would like to differentiate between a feature and a bug?
One person's bug is another one's feature.
What is your position on such points?

[barryem]

I have all three Paperwhites and I used to have the original Kindle Touch, which is their predecessor. The Paperwhites are all enough different from the Touch that it's kind of pointless to compare them. I haven't had my Touch for a while so I can't give a point by point comparison but, of course, it didn't have a light and that's a huge difference.

Among the Paperwhites the 8th generation latest Paperwhite is nearly identical to the 7th generation except that it has a higher resolution screen. I personally can't tell the difference but many people can. Also some of the 7th generation Paperwhites only had 2 gig storage. The later 7th generation and all the 8th generation Paperwhites have 4 gig. I think I'm right about that.

The 6th generation Paperwhite is noticeably slower than the later ones. Also the 6th generation hasn't received the last few updates so it doesn't have a few of the newer features. I read with all three of these and they're all just fine but I prefer the later two because they're faster. The light on the later two is also more even. Once I'm reading, though, none of that really matters. I get absorbed in the book and I don't really care which one I'm using.

I also have a Voyage, which has a couple of extra features but I keep those turned off so they have the same interface as the most recent Paperwhite models but it feels a lot different in my hand, being smaller and lighter.

Barry

[knc1]

Let me see if I can write a more productive reply than my first above.

I have:
KT, KT-2, and KT-3 (all without light and with IR touch scanner).
I can see a definite improvement in the screens over that model range.
Within that model range, I would have to say my preference is the KT-3.

I have several PW devices, some with lighting problems, some without.
No PW-2
One PW-3
Now the PW-3 I really, really like and I also think it is the best price/feature combination of the Kindle line.

I am in the habit of turning off new features, I.E: dumb down all versions in use to the lowest common denominator. At least as close to that as the firmware allows.

I also like the new menu layout for "settings" - a great improvement over the old way that "settings" worked.
IIRC, that change started somewhere around firmware version 5.7.x (well maybe early in 5.8.x).

That was a major user interface change, but it was a "must do" for Amazon because of the quickly expanding number of user options.

[avid01]

It seems that I need to clarify myself! I only asked about the software and the user interface on said devices, generally speaking, it's about how you interact with them. Nothing about how good their screen is, or how much storage they have. With that in mind...

Originally Posted by knc1

Version 5.8.9.2 is also current for the 8th generation devices.

I did not include any of the 8th generation devices in the question for the practical reason they are of a different price range. Even if they have the same latest software (Version 5.8.9.2) as 7th generation devices, they have more hardware features. So you are right in that the same software can work differently on different hardware. Sure.

Originally Posted by knc1

No, you can't conclude that they are identical from the inside or from the outside.
They are not.

OK. Let's say I can at least reasonably assume their software from a user interface standpoint are identical. Can I? Are the interfaces of the 6th and 6th generation Paperwhites different? Do you own both?

I did say nothing about the outside of any of the devices. Unless there is a noticeably difference in hardware between the 4th to 7th generation touch devices - from the user interaction standpoint. A better screen and bigger storage doesn't count here; how you interact with the device does.

Originally Posted by knc1

Please define how you would like to differentiate between a feature and a bug?
One person's bug is another one's feature.
What is your position on such points?

Let's define a bug whatever you, or anyone posts here finds annoying and needs to be fixed. In her personal opinion. I think it's a reasonable definition of a bug for the context of this conversation.

Originally Posted by barryem

I have all three Paperwhites and I used to have the original Kindle Touch, which is their predecessor. The Paperwhites are all enough different from the Touch that it's kind of pointless to compare them. I haven't had my Touch for a while so I can't give a point by point comparison but, of course, it didn't have a light and that's a huge difference.

Speaking of their latest software, taking aside the hardware? So different, really? That's interesting.

Originally Posted by barryem

Among the Paperwhites the 8th generation latest Paperwhite is nearly identical to the 7th generation except that it has a higher resolution screen. I personally can't tell the difference but many people can. Also some of the 7th generation Paperwhites only had 2 gig storage. The later 7th generation and all the 8th generation Paperwhites have 4 gig. I think I'm right about that.

According to my sources (and I double checked again: Amazon, Wikipedia), there is no such thing as a 8th generation Paperwhite.

I updated the OP with this:

The two main aspects of the user interface for me are the ease of use of the dictionary, highlighting, and note taking. Of course, you may find other aspects of the interface more important. You are welcome to do so!

[knc1]

Originally Posted by avid01

- - - -
The two main aspects of the user interface for me are the ease of use of the dictionary, highlighting, and note taking. Of course, you may find other aspects of the interface more important. You are welcome to do so!

What part of:

I also like the new menu layout for "settings" - a great improvement over the old way that "settings" worked.
IIRC, that change started somewhere around firmware version 5.7.x (well maybe early in 5.8.x).

That was a major user interface change, but it was a "must do" for Amazon because of the quickly expanding number of user options.

Does not fit your question (as originally posted)?

In your original question, you did not mention why you left out the 8th generation devices.

People that post in the Kindle forums sometimes use the term: "Paperwhite" to mean all Kindle devices with a front light.
Some use: "Paperwhite" the way people use "Kleenex" (as a generalization, not as a specific).
Since you did not (originally) define how you where using the term, I qualified each of my answers.

The best that you could do was just ignore any parts that did not fit your unmentioned criteria.

Translation:
Ask a better question if you must have a better answer.

[avid01]

Originally Posted by knc1

What part of:

Does not fit your question (as originally posted)?

It fits. Thank you! I'm just a little puzzled by barryem's elaborate answer about screen qualities and storage sizes, when I explicitly highlighted in the title that I'm asking about software.

Originally Posted by knc1

In your original question, you did not mention why you left out the 8th generation devices.

You know, I'm just a casual e-reader. I go to Amazon.com and Wikipedia, and I don't see ant 8th generation Paperwhite device there. So for me, it was case closed.

Originally Posted by knc1

People that post in the Kindle forums sometimes use the term: "Paperwhite" to mean all Kindle devices with a front light.

That's really nice, but how should outsiders know about your insider lingo? Is it acceptable if they just use the term as non-initiated people would do, that is, gathering their information from mainstream sources, such as Amazon and Wikipedia?

Originally Posted by knc1

Some use: "Paperwhite" the way people use "Kleenex" (as a generalization, not as a specific).

I guess it depends on your country.

Originally Posted by knc1

Translation:
Ask a better question if you must have a better answer.

I realize this is kind of a very geeky question, and possibly it's hard to get the details right at first. Even if at the first try I highlighted in the title that I'm interested in the software size of things, I get this nice answer on the hardware... It's not easy! Hence, I iterate.

[knc1]

I think after all of this back-and-forth, what you want to ask about is the features and their usability as provided by the GUI of different firmware versions.
At least that is a description of the three examples you gave.

I can't be of any help, those are among the things I turn off or don't use even if I can't turn them off.

The model of the device is not relevant to you here.
The hardware aspects of the different devices is not relevant to you here.
You don't want to know about software differences per-say, just the behavior provided to the user of different software versions.

[barryem]

>> According to my sources (and I double checked
>> again: Amazon, Wikipedia), there is no such thing
>> as a 8th generation Paperwhite.

You might be right. I have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation Paperwhite so you can use those numbers.

I guess I assumed since the original Paperwhite came out after the 5th generation Kindle it would be the 6th generation. I added one for each generation thereafter.

Using the Paperwhite generations is probably more sensible.

Barry

[DrD123]

Amazon seems to do generations in a more global sense - sort of like a set of devices - so currently for sale from Amazon are 8th generation devices (kindle oasis, kindle (basic)) and 7th generation devices (kindle voyage, kindle paperwhite). There was a 7th generation kindle basic, but that was replaced by the 8th. The generation seems to have less to do with the hardware, and more to do with when the device was released.

For the software version, I am guessing it's sort of like PC operating systems - as machines age, they might not have the hardware to run the latest and greatest OS - probably the same deal with the kindles - if a particular version can't implement what's added in the new software properly, it doesn't get the upgrade. (obviously with some exceptions - such as the autodimming feature on the Voyage, which is exclusive (so far) to that model.

[knc1]

The Kindles had been in production for years before Amazon adopted the "generation" terminology.
They where just running out of consumer distinctive marketing names for the models.
Such as:
There had already been five models built and sold with keyboards before the marketing people named a model: "Kindle Keyboard".

No, it is not like a (general purpose) PC operating system.
These are (specific purpose) embedded operating systems. Each built for that specific purpose. Were here "purpose" is more defined by consumer features than by changes in hardware.
The last (OS significant) hardware change was the adoption of the i.MX6 series of SoC chips (at the PW-2 point of evolution).

There are two reasons at work here for why new firmware versions are not backported to older models:
*) Planned obsolescence.

How can you expect to sell "new" models ("generations") if the currently promoted features are made available on the older models?
To further that thinking, why not at the same time take advantage of some people's search for "bragging rights" ? I.E: They must have the model associated with the next larger number (generation number). And electronic device (or service) version of referring to things like automobiles by "model year".

*) It is expensive to support multiple models with vastly differing hardware resources with the same firmware build.
So making the cut off point any device with an older than i.MX6 SoC (System on Chip) device is rational (not a typo, I intentionally avoided: "reasonable").

There is a similar reasoning (and reasons) going on at the next higher level, the chip manufacturer level.
NXP (formally: Freescale, formally: Motorola) has dropped or will be dropping support of any chip model prior to the i.MX6 series.
And it is a series, it is just that Amazon only needs to use the low-end device to build an e-reader. The others are designed with (computer) resources more aimed at tablets, cell phones, and single purpose controllers (like are in your car or kitchen mixer).

= = = =

There, probably more than anyone ever wanted to know about why the Kindle Touch is still running the 5.3 consumer interface feature set and the original Paperwhite is still running the 5.6 consumer interface feature set.
Different system chips requiring different firmware build systems.
Everything newer (so far) are all i.MX6 based devices.

See? I even (finally) got back to the thread topic.

But they all (except maybe the K1) are running Linux.
And here we have a small scale version of why computer systems manufacturers get a little bit fuzzy on their marketing driven hardware choices.
For instance: IBM would rather their customers forget that IBM-360 devices run Linux, just like the Z-Systems do (or can).
Why would they want to encourage people to spend thousands on a small, used, 360 product model that serves the buyer's purposes when they can encourage people to spend millions on a "modern" Z-System?


= = = =

The "bragging rights" numbers game:
http://www.nxp.com/products/microcon..._HOME?&tid=FSH

Of course they inherited the little problem that the i.MX6 is bigger, better, newer than an i.MX53 product.
But you can tell by the layout of that page which direction their marketing people are looking.

[tomsem]

The most notable hardware difference between 6th and 7th generation Paperwhite is RAM size: 256 vs 512K. This improves performance and makes it possible to do VoiceView (accessibility).

I have a 5th generation Paperwhite (as well as 7th gen). The display is not as good and it is noticeably slower. Moreover the interface improvements in the newer devices are significant.

[knc1]

Originally Posted by tomsem

The most notable hardware difference between 6th and 7th generation Paperwhite is RAM size: 256 vs 512K. This improves performance and makes it possible to do VoiceView (accessibility).

I have a 5th generation Paperwhite (as well as 7th gen). The display is not as good and it is noticeably slower. Moreover the interface improvements in the newer devices are significant.

The increase in RAM size has nothing at all to do with the increase in performance.
The devices use a different computer, running at a significantly higher speed.
Check the technical documents on both part numbers, you'll see where the improvement comes from.

Kindles have done TTS for many models prior to those you have.
And we have an add-in that gives the KT speaker independent voice control of the device.
The earlier devices where not limited by the amount of RAM on board.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by knc1

The increase in RAM size has nothing at all to do with the increase in performance.
The devices use a different computer, running at a significantly higher speed.
Check the technical documents on both part numbers, you'll see where the improvement comes from.

Kindles have done TTS for many models prior to those you have.
And we have an add-in that gives the KT speaker independent voice control of the device.
The earlier devices where not limited by the amount of RAM on board.

I'm not sure which Paperwhites you are comparing. PW2 and PW3 have the same 1GHz processor AFAICT, but the latter has more pixels to manipulate. Both would be faster than the 800MHz PW1, of course. I would think PW3 is faster than PW2 for some things at least (like PDF viewing), because it has more RAM. But I have not compared this myself.

The requirement for high quality voice synthesis was the main driver for increased RAM, as the Ivona voice requires this. The voice on the 7/8th gen kindles is much better than TTS on previous Kindles. Note that it will play back at speed increments between .66x and 4x.

But I would not say VoiceView is 'TTS'. It is a screen reader, designed for folks with visual impairments, and a bit annoying to use for the rest of us. In fact Kindle operates with a reduced feature set when in VoiceView mode.

[knc1]

Originally Posted by tomsem

- - - -
The requirement for high quality voice synthesis was the main driver for increased RAM, as the Ivona voice requires this.
- - - -

That might be your main assumption.

Do a:

cat /proc/meminfo

on all the models that you have, see how the RAM is actually getting used.

Then post the quotes from the output of the command that support your assumptions.