Epub is Not Universal So Stop the BS

[bjones6416]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

So, as long as the publishers/hardware creators don't decide on one format and either no DRM or a single DRM setup, ebooks won't be for the majority of the readers (and I'm talking worldwide).

I hate to think that I might agree with that statement, since I'm one of those people who will buy any format -- I just "fix" it. But... I might agree with that statement.

But if my mother decides to buy an ereader, I know I will make her a nice application/batch process that will help her removing the DRM from her bought books, using one click of the button.

Your mother is lucky to have you. I do the same for mine. (She's sitting at home right now, age 89, happily reading a Stuart Woods novel on a Sony PRS-300 set on the largest font.)

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by AGB

Oh, so you're not looking for a dictionary to be used with epub books you read, but actual epub dictionaries. Well, that's a different kettle of fish.

My Sony-reader can use its inbuilt dictionary when reading books in whatever format I am reading on it. I don't think I really need the dictionary itself to be in a particular format, as long as I can use it while reading whatever book i'm currently reading and can use it as a stand-alone dictionary (which I can).

I cannot talk for the person you quote, but, per your first paragraph, I am looking for a dictionary, or dictionaries, I can use with epub books I read. I don't want a pre-installed dictionary unchosen and unchangeable. I want to buy/download dictionaries that suit what I want (be they Chambers English, or Harraps French-English, as I have now, for instance). With Mobipocket on my Iliad I can buy from a reasonably large variety of dictionaries which are then used by the software as the lookup dictionaries. With epub there is not currently support for that (though I believe it's being looked at/worked on/discussed).

User-selectable dictionaries for use by dictionary-lookup is what the Mobipocket format provides for. Epub does not (as far as I know, yet).

Cheers,
Marc

[GeoffC]

and wait we continue to do, in the meantime thank the heavens for mobi !!!!

[svenlind]

Originally Posted by AGB

Oh, so you're not looking for a dictionary to be used with epub books you read, but actual epub dictionaries. Well, that's a different kettle of fish.

I am looking for a dictionary I can use while reading a book.
If you place one or more Mobi dictionaries on your mobi-device, then the system will do a lookup in all available dictionaries and give you a choice of dictionary.

On my Cybook gen3 I have 2 dictionaries, an English->English and a thesaurus. When I make a lookup, then I can choose what dictionary I want to use.
That is an advantage of the Mobi format. Can you add/change dictionary on an epub-reader?

I have read somewhere that the new Kindle will support 2 dictionaries.

I believe that the dictionaries in the epub readers are device-specific applications. I moved my dictionaries from an old PDA to the Cybook without any problems. I only had to redownload the files with the new PID.

[AGB]

Sounds nice, but that sort of useability surely has more to do with the "closedness" of the readers' firmware than whether or not epub dictionaries are available. On my PRS-900 I have two dictionaries. One American English and one Oxford dictionary. I have no idea what format they're in as they're buried in the firmware, but surely, if they (Sony et al) wanted to, we could install our own dictionaries in the appropriate format. For all I know, the inbuilt ones might actually be epub, although they're placed under "apps" on my reader.

[montsnmags]

Mobipocket dictionaries are particularly formatted as dictionaries for use by software. Epub does not have such a dictionary specification in the standard (as I understand it, though I believe, as mentioned, it is being looked at), such that publishers can bring out duly indexed dictionaries for software developers to write reader software/apps that can lookup words from books being read, in those dictionaries.

It is precisely to avoid people like Sony having to write their own proprietary means of enabling dictionary support and proprietary dictionaries (in that, as you specify, we have "no idea" how they are installed or what they actually are), and to enable the simple purchase/install of assorted or specific dictionaries as desired by the customer, that the mobipocket dictionary format is popular with some, and why we see it as something advantageous to be provided under epub (and thus why it is being discussed by those involved in developing the epub standard).

It is, for those of us who desire it, important to avoid epub dictionary-lookup being fragmented into proprietary, non-selectable solutions. I suspect this is a possibility as to why not many epub dictionaries are found, compared to mobipocket - that the dictionary publishers are perhaps waiting for the possibility of a similar, standard, dictionary-lookup epub format to produce and sell their dictionaries in (varying perhaps only for the store's preferred DRM ).

Cheers,
Marc

[AGB]

Erm, just a little correction: I said I didn't have a clue about the format. Some people more into the technical side of things might very well know exactly what it is.

[bjones6416]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

Mobipocket dictionaries are particularly formatted as dictionaries for use by software. Epub does not have such a dictionary specification in the standard (as I understand it, though I believe, as mentioned, it is being looked at), such that publishers can bring out duly indexed dictionaries for software developers to write reader software/apps that can lookup words from books being read, in those dictionaries.

It is precisely to avoid people like Sony having to write their own proprietary means of enabling dictionary support and proprietary dictionaries (in that, as you specify, we have "no idea" how they are installed or what they actually are), and to enable the simple purchase/install of assorted or specific dictionaries as desired by the customer, that the mobipocket dictionary format is popular with some, and why we see it as something advantageous to be provided under epub (and thus why it is being discussed by those involved in developing the epub standard).

It is, for those of us who desire it, important to avoid epub dictionary-lookup being fragmented into proprietary, non-selectable solutions. I suspect this is a possibility as to why not many epub dictionaries are found, compared to mobipocket - that the dictionary publishers are perhaps waiting for the possibility of a similar, standard, dictionary-lookup epub format to produce and sell their dictionaries in (varying perhaps only for the store's preferred DRM ).

Cheers,
Marc

It has added another dimension to my reading to be able to click and see the definition of an unfamiliar word -- more so because, on the Kindle, you ARE able to install different dictionaries. Right now I've got a Spanish-English one chosen as my default while reading "The Lacuna." One of those small pleasures...

[Baumi]

Just to give a general perspective on the situation over here in Germany: Kindle store exists but is irrelevant since German publishes aren't putting their books online. Buying US books from the Kindle store usually isn't attractive, because English language ePubs are cheaper at the UK websites. German publishers are trying to push ADEPT ePub as the format of choice, with more and more of their catalogs being offered (usually, however, at much too high prices) in that format and next to nothing in any other. Big book stores will often have a Sony Reader on display.

In spite of all that, however, most people still associate e-readers with Amazon and the Kindle. ("Is it that Amazon thing?" was the most common question when people saw me reading on my CyBook.) I guess this goes to show that the German eBook market is still pretty much non-existant at the moment. If Amazon managed to get an agreement with a local telco (eliminating the stupid AT&T roaming charges) and convince the publishers to offer their books for the Kindle at sensible price points, they could still conquer the German eBook market like Apple did with downloadable music.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I did hear that you need to do some work to get DRM'd epub working on your Ipad, using the Txtr app. Not really userfriendly...

To use the txtr app, go to http://txtr.com, create an account, upload the eBooks you want to use with the txtr app and then using the txtr app, setup the preferences and then download the eBooks you have in your txtr account. It's really not that difficult.

[Baumi]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

To use the txtr app, go to http://txtr.com, create an account, upload the eBooks you want to use with the txtr app and then using the txtr app, setup the preferences and then download the eBooks you have in your txtr account. It's really not that difficult.

I don't mean to bash txtr (it's good that there's an ADEPT-capable app out there), but this *is* a bit less plug&play than "Click 'buy' on Amazon.com and wait for a few seconds before the book shows up on your Kindle." It's fine for us tech-savvy people, but there are those who just want to read stuff without having to now how and where to convert/upload/decrypt their books.

I'd feel comfortable letting my mother buy a Kindle and figure out how to use it by herself (if there were any current German books for it... :-/ ), but I'm quite sure she'd need assistance if she were to try out the txtr app.

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by AGB

Erm, just a little correction: I said I didn't have a clue about the format. Some people more into the technical side of things might very well know exactly what it is.

But that is also part of the point. It is a dictionary solution that has to be "reverse engineered", and still might not be easily dealt with (even if those dictionaries were "ePub" in form), in the absence of other ePub dictionaries. The point of the mobipocket format is that dictionaries and dictionary-lookup are part of the format. This would allow publishers to create dictionaries in that format with confidence, and app-developers to create the necessary hooks. Dictionaries would be simply part of the bookstore (as they are with mobipocket).

That is to say, mobipocket currently provides a solution as part of it's format for dictionaries and dictionary lookup. ePub does not. Some of us want/hope/wait for this to change, (and, again, I believe the developers of the standard are looking at it) so we can with ease and confidence jump into ePub (note, I'm in the process of converting my books to ePub). I want ePub to "win", but my personal scorecard gives heavy weight to this dictionary-lookup standardisation, and it's on the essential technical, rather than style, part of the scoring.

Cheers,
Marc

[kjk]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

That is to say, mobipocket currently provides a solution as part of it's format for dictionaries and dictionary lookup. ePub does not. Some of us want/hope/wait for this to change, (and, again, I believe the developers of the standard are looking at it) so we can with ease and confidence jump into ePub (note, I'm in the process of converting my books to ePub). I want ePub to "win", but my personal scorecard gives heavy weight to this dictionary-lookup standardisation, and it's on the essential technical, rather than style, part of the scoring.

Cheers,
Marc

Didn't know that about .mobi- thanks for the info! The ePub group is working on 3.0 right now- wonder if this is under discussion.

[starapple]

If Kindle owners can use their device to access their library's e-collection and it can't accommodate the file format, it suggests that the user should own multiple (expensive) e-readers to access each file format. What is so silly then in people who frequently use their library system saying it'd be good that Kindle - or any other device - be compatible with the format most used by them?

[Teddman]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

So, as long as the publishers/hardware creators don't decide on one format and either no DRM or a single DRM setup, ebooks won't be for the majority of the readers (and I'm talking worldwide).

I don't think it will really matter that much. Look at digital music--Itune's aac and everyone else's mp3 format stores coexist and both do business. As long as it works on the device you have, most people won't care.