Authors are protesting Amazon's 'read and return' e-book policy

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I was merely commenting on the fact that Zod's track record in betting on people's opinions in this thread hasn't been that great.

I'm not much of a gambler, it is true

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The good new is that no one's dying on this hill. So put your hyperbole (or metaphor should you choose to get picky) back in your pocket, Barney.

Hey, Captain Newspeak, stop being such a hyperbolephobe.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ApK

Hey, Captain Newspeak, stop being such a hyperbolephobe.

I can't help it it if I'm overdramatametaphorbolically sensitive.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

To be clear, a 7-day return isn't the problem. I don't care if it is a day, a week, a month. But it is odd that they don't check to see if the book has been read by the customer when their policy sez accidental purchases are what is allowed to be returned.

In fact, when returning a Kindle book you’re given eleven possible reasons, pick one, and the last one is “Other.”

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by issybird

Oh, how about Amazon issuing a warning to abusers? Blocking all returns from accounts with a lot of churn? Closing accounts altogether? In short, the solutions they already have and use.

Those are good things. But none of us know the triggers of any of these things.

Ah. And yet Amazon explicitly disallows this...

Some more of that personal morality, but you’re unwilling to let others abide by the rules when you deem it wrong.

Yes, yes. Whataboutism can be fun. It doesn't change the fact that reading books and then returning for a refund is a sketchy practice.

As opposed to dishonest users, who do something licitly and openly?

Exactly, yes.

And now we’re back to “ebooks are exactly the same as paper books.” No, they aren’t. I won’t list every reason, but I’ll point out that no costs are involved in either delivering the ebook or accepting the return, nor has the ebook incurred physical costs of production.

This argument never convinced you, when it was used in one of the 'ebooks should be cheaper' threads. It's not very convincing here either.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by issybird

In fact, when returning a Kindle book you’re given eleven possible reasons, pick one, and the last one is “Other.”

Though it is not what is said on their instructions page for returns. Which shows that like any large company, Amazon doesn't have an eagle eye on every single aspect of their operation. Which weakens your earlier arguments that the return policy is the way that it is because Amazon is on top of it and knows what works best.

[MGlitch]

I’d go further and say that in the specifics of this ebooks are more like physical books than in any argument of their market prices. If you read either you have used the value of them. Just because an ebook isn’t damaged and doesn’t require shipping does not negate that the value is the consumption of the contents.

What’s so difficult in adding a check on progress read of an ebook. If you’ve read 50% you’re well beyond being able to argue an accidental purchase. And the author has delivered on their promise of providing a book. It may not be a good book but as has been noted that’s what reviews are for.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by DNSB

And hence the ability to download a sample of an ebook. This does run into the risk of downloading a sample where 50% of the sample is not relevant to the book unless you really care about a list of also by books, copyright notices, multiple table of contents, dedications, etc. A bit bitter since one recent sample had 20 pages of fluff before the epigraph, prologue and half the first chapter.

There is a difference between reading what I choose while browsing and having to be content with what is given - in a bookshop I could even read the whole book and put it away afterwards - and that's exactly how an internet purchase has to work; I can also listen to the whole album at a record store

I would disagree. A literary work whether physical or electronic must be read much as an audio-visual performance such as films, theatrical performances or music videos must be viewed or a audio performance such as music, spoken word or audiobooks must be listened to.

A book is a finished product - music and video need a performance and that makes the difference

[Ripplinger]

Why couldn't they just make it a 24 hour period max to be able to return an ebook? That would give you plenty of time to check through it and see if it's a horribly formatted book that you don't want to read... it protects the consumer from trash and the author from those who take advantage and return books after reading them. Of course, I do know some people who can read an entire book in a day... but a week's time I think is excessive and ends up cheating the author probably in most cases.

Apps on Google's Play Store used to be something like 15 minutes, then up to 2 hours, now I think even that's extended maybe to a day, and that seems to have worked well for them. So why can't Amazon just shorten the period you can make a return?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Yes, yes. Whataboutism can be fun. It doesn't change the fact that reading books and then returning for a refund is a sketchy practice.

No one here is arguing that buying ebooks with the intent of returning them is moral or legitimate. But buying an ebook with the intent of keeping it, reading well into it and running into issues is a very different thing and Amazon seemingly has no problem with people returning them. As for the whataboutism, I was reiterating a point I’ve made in this thread; sometimes you’ve got to let it go and especially when others are doing something legitimate that you may just not like.

This argument never convinced you, when it was used in one of the 'ebooks should be cheaper' threads. It's not very convincing here either.

Entirely different situations. Costs have minimal bearing on pricing, but are a significant aspect of returns.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

There is a difference between reading what I choose while browsing and having to be content with what is given - in a bookshop I could even read the whole book and put it away afterwards - and that's exactly how an internet purchase has to work; I can also listen to the whole album at a record store
A book is a finished product - music and video need a performance and that makes the difference

Give me your work for free.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by issybird

No one here is arguing that buying ebooks with the intent of returning them is moral or legitimate. But buying an ebook with the intent of keeping it, reading well into it and running into issues is a very different thing and Amazon seemingly has no problem with people returning them...

Great. Now we just need to figure out: how far into the book should a reader be able to get before returning it is an issue?

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Great. Now we just need to figure out: how far into the book should a reader be able to get before returning it is an issue?

Why do "we" get to decide?

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Why do "we" get to decide?

To resolve the debate between two users. Why else?

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Why do "we" get to decide?

Because we’re the ones having the discussion.