ebook.com preview is mangled.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

I wouldn’t add any space to left and right margins unless you are going for some kind of ‘block text’ look. It just wastes real estate. Most readers/apps can control their own margin size so anything you put in there can just get overridden.

+1 ^ Don't add left/right margins except for specialty formatting for blockquotes or the like.

HItch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by roland1

I'm just formatting the css for my new ebook today — before I fix the old one, which I hope to get to in a few days.

I mention this because I'm using the advice given to me here by Hitch, JSWolf and others. I'm using a style sheet based on the input of others and then will apply those lessons learned to the previous book (the one that began this topic).

My question today is about left and right margins. I'm getting the msg that I should avoid adding any kind of space on the left or right for the body text to breath. Is that right?

I can see in the various reader previews that this is not an issue. But is that across the board —*do all readers add their own l/r margins?

P.S. Hitch, I'm using your p padding advice and adding a 0.2 em space between paragraphs. It does look less crowded that way—although in the print version there is no p space and it looks just fine...(mind you, it also has a good line height and that seems to help it look less cluttered).

Yes, keep the left/right margins at 0 unless you want offset text like say a blockquote (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

As for p assing 0.2em space between paragraphs is really annoying. You do not see this done in pBooks (paper books). It's best you not have any excess space between normal paragraphs.

When you set the text justification for most of the eBook, just put test-align: justify; in the body style. That way Readers and programs that can override this will work. You can still center as needed. But don't forget a text-indent: 0; with the center code.

[roland1]

So it's agreed—a full inch on each side?

Okay. That's three votes for "0"; the people have spoken.

Thanks, guys/gals. Much appreciated.

P.S. I've seen where some printed books add paragraph spacing. Similarly, it was also more traditional to add space on both sides of an em space, like this:

wurdz(space)—(space)more wurdz as opposed to—this crowded crap. I use the space because I think it's tidier; it breathes better. It actually looks like someone's trying to say something that's separate from the main text.

Point: all kinds of ways to do stuff out there. But I agree that a simple css convention will probably do my ebooks a world of good.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by roland1

So it's agreed—a full inch on each side?

Okay. That's three votes for "0"; the people have spoken.

Thanks, guys/gals. Much appreciated.

P.S. I've seen where some printed books add paragraph spacing. Similarly, it was also more traditional to add space on both sides of an em space, like this:

wurdz(space)—(space)more wurdz as opposed to—this crowded crap. I use the space because I think it's tidier; it breathes better. It actually looks like someone's trying to say something that's separate from the main text.

Point: all kinds of ways to do stuff out there. But I agree that a simple css convention will probably do my ebooks a world of good.

Again no. an em dash should not have space on either side. Same with an ellipse. Please don't be adding excess space that we don't need and don't want. And it's not crap to not have excess space. It's the best looking way to do it.

[roland1]

The only issue I have with adding space around an em dash is the one I encounter here on this forum where an asterisk is added instead of the last space, or in SIGIL where it adds code for a no break space.

That alone warrants taking a second look at using em dash spacing for ebooks. But in print —*I must insist.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by roland1

So it's agreed—a full inch on each side?

Okay. That's three votes for "0"; the people have spoken.

Thanks, guys/gals. Much appreciated.

P.S. I've seen where some printed books add paragraph spacing. Similarly, it was also more traditional to add space on both sides of an em space, like this:

wurdz(space)—(space)more wurdz as opposed to—this crowded crap. I use the space because I think it's tidier; it breathes better. It actually looks like someone's trying to say something that's separate from the main text.

Point: all kinds of ways to do stuff out there. But I agree that a simple css convention will probably do my ebooks a world of good.

Just a gentle note on emdashes and ellipses:

don't forget, eReading devices are not the Robert Oppenheimers of the rendering world. They render top-down, left-right (in the Eurocentric world, anyway). They don't "know" that an emdash shouldn't just start a new line, or this or that. So, you typically want to anchor it somehow. Don't anchor it with a non-breaking space, because in the eBook world, a non-breaking space is like a train schedule in Mexico--it's a suggestion, not a rule.

We anchor our emdashes and hellips (and for those customers that make me want to scream, the nbsp-dot-nbsp-dot-nbsp-dot) to the PRECEDING word, and use a space after to facilitate an attempt at decent typography.

Hitch

[Quoth]

Also US style—an aside—in the sentence, em dashes with no spaces
UK/IRL style – an aside – in the sentence (en dashes spaced, but em used at end of sentences to show interruption, especially in dialogue with no spaces).

On websites or paper I might use non-breaking spaces, or partial size spaces, but not in ebooks. I do use … character not . . . (triple periods with or without spaces, ideally smaller width, which only works reliably on paper) in ebooks.

I've seen every sort of madness, often inconsistently in the same book, so we have our own set of rules. Other people are free to use their own rules or any of the published style guides, except every published style guide I've seen is for paper. Also the US rules might seem odd to right-side-of-pond readers and vice versa, especially when local spelling is used.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Also US style—an aside—in the sentence, em dashes with no spaces
UK/IRL style – an aside – in the sentence (en dashes spaced, but em used at end of sentences to show interruption, especially in dialogue with no spaces).

On websites or paper I might use non-breaking spaces, or partial size spaces, but not in ebooks. I do use … character not . . . (triple periods with or without spaces, ideally smaller width, which only works reliably on paper) in ebooks.

I've seen every sort of madness, often inconsistently in the same book, so we have our own set of rules. Other people are free to use their own rules or any of the published style guides, except every published style guide I've seen is for paper. Also the US rules might seem odd to right-side-of-pond readers and vice versa, especially when local spelling is used.

Consistency is all. Because it's true--there are different styles, in different geographic locations, in different publishing houses, and on and on and on.

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Consistency is all. Because it's true--there are different styles, in different geographic locations, in different publishing houses, and on and on and on.

One of my all time favourites for inconsistency happens when an omnibus has different styles for each book in the omnibus. It doesn't take that much effort to diff the stylesheets and then make them consistent across all the books.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by DNSB

One of my all time favourites for inconsistency happens when an omnibus has different styles for each book in the omnibus. It doesn't take that much effort to diff the stylesheets and then make them consistent across all the books.

Yes, that's mad. Either laziness, incompetence or a bit of both.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Yes, that's mad. Either laziness, incompetence or a bit of both.

This reminds me of a series I'm reading right now. It's driving me bats**t. It's the Barker & Llewellyn series, right? Done by Touchstone--a real publisher--which is an S&S imprint. Simon & Schuster, for crying out loud!

And what to my wondering eyes should appear? But first-line indent, SPACE BETWEEN paragraphs, in so far, 3 of the 4 books I've bought. Not all of them, mind you--book 2 had proper formatting. But the other 3? And it's absolutely infuriating. It's so distracting!!! And irritating and infuriating.

/grumble /rant.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Also US style—an aside—in the sentence, em dashes with no spaces
UK/IRL style – an aside – in the sentence (en dashes spaced, but em used at end of sentences to show interruption, especially in dialogue with no spaces).

On websites or paper I might use non-breaking spaces, or partial size spaces, but not in ebooks. I do use … character not . . . (triple periods with or without spaces, ideally smaller width, which only works reliably on paper) in ebooks.

I've seen every sort of madness, often inconsistently in the same book, so we have our own set of rules. Other people are free to use their own rules or any of the published style guides, except every published style guide I've seen is for paper. Also the US rules might seem odd to right-side-of-pond readers and vice versa, especially when local spelling is used.

And I will take an eBook with UK style en dashes and fix it to US style em dashes. It reads so much better. en dashes look like a mistake.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

This reminds me of a series I'm reading right now. It's driving me bats**t. It's the Barker & Llewellyn series, right? Done by Touchstone--a real publisher--which is an S&S imprint. Simon & Schuster, for crying out loud!

And what to my wondering eyes should appear? But first-line indent, SPACE BETWEEN paragraphs, in so far, 3 of the 4 books I've bought. Not all of them, mind you--book 2 had proper formatting. But the other 3? And it's absolutely infuriating. It's so distracting!!! And irritating and infuriating.

/grumble /rant.

Hitch

It is issues like these and others which is why I'm saying that some fo the suggestions by roland1 are just not going to work. It's to his benefit to listen and don't do the ones said not to be done as they don't work well.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And I will take an eBook with UK style en dashes and fix it to US style em dashes. It reads so much better. en dashes look like a mistake.

But that is purely your own preference and opinion. If you were formatting ebooks in a publishing business you'd have to apply the house rules.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Hitch

This reminds me of a series I'm reading right now. It's driving me bats**t. It's the Barker & Llewellyn series, right? Done by Touchstone--a real publisher--which is an S&S imprint. Simon & Schuster, for crying out loud!

And what to my wondering eyes should appear? But first-line indent, SPACE BETWEEN paragraphs, in so far, 3 of the 4 books I've bought. Not all of them, mind you--book 2 had proper formatting. But the other 3? And it's absolutely infuriating. It's so distracting!!! And irritating and infuriating.

/grumble /rant.

Hitch

At least you can probably fix it unless it's on paper? Most people are stuck with what they get.