Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Workshop

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-18-2022, 10:11 AM   #106
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,503
Karma: 158448243
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
I wouldn’t add any space to left and right margins unless you are going for some kind of ‘block text’ look. It just wastes real estate. Most readers/apps can control their own margin size so anything you put in there can just get overridden.
+1 ^ Don't add left/right margins except for specialty formatting for blockquotes or the like.

HItch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 10:22 AM   #107
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 79,786
Karma: 146391129
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by roland1 View Post
I'm just formatting the css for my new ebook today — before I fix the old one, which I hope to get to in a few days.

I mention this because I'm using the advice given to me here by Hitch, JSWolf and others. I'm using a style sheet based on the input of others and then will apply those lessons learned to the previous book (the one that began this topic).

My question today is about left and right margins. I'm getting the msg that I should avoid adding any kind of space on the left or right for the body text to breath. Is that right?

I can see in the various reader previews that this is not an issue. But is that across the board —*do all readers add their own l/r margins?

P.S. Hitch, I'm using your p padding advice and adding a 0.2 em space between paragraphs. It does look less crowded that way—although in the print version there is no p space and it looks just fine...(mind you, it also has a good line height and that seems to help it look less cluttered).
Yes, keep the left/right margins at 0 unless you want offset text like say a blockquote (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

As for p assing 0.2em space between paragraphs is really annoying. You do not see this done in pBooks (paper books). It's best you not have any excess space between normal paragraphs.

When you set the text justification for most of the eBook, just put test-align: justify; in the body style. That way Readers and programs that can override this will work. You can still center as needed. But don't forget a text-indent: 0; with the center code.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 04-18-2022, 10:35 AM   #108
roland1
Connoisseur
roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
roland1's Avatar
 
Posts: 80
Karma: 2137678
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Canada
Device: none
So it's agreed—a full inch on each side?

Okay. That's three votes for "0"; the people have spoken.

Thanks, guys/gals. Much appreciated.

P.S. I've seen where some printed books add paragraph spacing. Similarly, it was also more traditional to add space on both sides of an em space, like this:

wurdz(space)—(space)more wurdz as opposed to—this crowded crap. I use the space because I think it's tidier; it breathes better. It actually looks like someone's trying to say something that's separate from the main text.

Point: all kinds of ways to do stuff out there. But I agree that a simple css convention will probably do my ebooks a world of good.
roland1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 10:46 AM   #109
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 79,786
Karma: 146391129
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by roland1 View Post
So it's agreed—a full inch on each side?

Okay. That's three votes for "0"; the people have spoken.

Thanks, guys/gals. Much appreciated.

P.S. I've seen where some printed books add paragraph spacing. Similarly, it was also more traditional to add space on both sides of an em space, like this:

wurdz(space)—(space)more wurdz as opposed to—this crowded crap. I use the space because I think it's tidier; it breathes better. It actually looks like someone's trying to say something that's separate from the main text.

Point: all kinds of ways to do stuff out there. But I agree that a simple css convention will probably do my ebooks a world of good.
Again no. an em dash should not have space on either side. Same with an ellipse. Please don't be adding excess space that we don't need and don't want. And it's not crap to not have excess space. It's the best looking way to do it.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 11:24 AM   #110
roland1
Connoisseur
roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.roland1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
roland1's Avatar
 
Posts: 80
Karma: 2137678
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Canada
Device: none
The only issue I have with adding space around an em dash is the one I encounter here on this forum where an asterisk is added instead of the last space, or in SIGIL where it adds code for a no break space.

That alone warrants taking a second look at using em dash spacing for ebooks. But in print —*I must insist.
roland1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 04-18-2022, 12:13 PM   #111
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,503
Karma: 158448243
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
Quote:
Originally Posted by roland1 View Post
So it's agreed—a full inch on each side?

Okay. That's three votes for "0"; the people have spoken.

Thanks, guys/gals. Much appreciated.

P.S. I've seen where some printed books add paragraph spacing. Similarly, it was also more traditional to add space on both sides of an em space, like this:

wurdz(space)—(space)more wurdz as opposed to—this crowded crap. I use the space because I think it's tidier; it breathes better. It actually looks like someone's trying to say something that's separate from the main text.

Point: all kinds of ways to do stuff out there. But I agree that a simple css convention will probably do my ebooks a world of good.
Just a gentle note on emdashes and ellipses:

don't forget, eReading devices are not the Robert Oppenheimers of the rendering world. They render top-down, left-right (in the Eurocentric world, anyway). They don't "know" that an emdash shouldn't just start a new line, or this or that. So, you typically want to anchor it somehow. Don't anchor it with a non-breaking space, because in the eBook world, a non-breaking space is like a train schedule in Mexico--it's a suggestion, not a rule.

We anchor our emdashes and hellips (and for those customers that make me want to scream, the nbsp-dot-nbsp-dot-nbsp-dot) to the PRECEDING word, and use a space after to facilitate an attempt at decent typography.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 03:40 PM   #112
Quoth
Still reading
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,098
Karma: 105211945
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper
Also US style—an aside—in the sentence, em dashes with no spaces
UK/IRL style – an aside – in the sentence (en dashes spaced, but em used at end of sentences to show interruption, especially in dialogue with no spaces).

On websites or paper I might use non-breaking spaces, or partial size spaces, but not in ebooks. I do use … character not . . . (triple periods with or without spaces, ideally smaller width, which only works reliably on paper) in ebooks.

I've seen every sort of madness, often inconsistently in the same book, so we have our own set of rules. Other people are free to use their own rules or any of the published style guides, except every published style guide I've seen is for paper. Also the US rules might seem odd to right-side-of-pond readers and vice versa, especially when local spelling is used.

Last edited by Quoth; 04-18-2022 at 03:43 PM.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 05:40 PM   #113
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,503
Karma: 158448243
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Also US style—an aside—in the sentence, em dashes with no spaces
UK/IRL style – an aside – in the sentence (en dashes spaced, but em used at end of sentences to show interruption, especially in dialogue with no spaces).

On websites or paper I might use non-breaking spaces, or partial size spaces, but not in ebooks. I do use … character not . . . (triple periods with or without spaces, ideally smaller width, which only works reliably on paper) in ebooks.

I've seen every sort of madness, often inconsistently in the same book, so we have our own set of rules. Other people are free to use their own rules or any of the published style guides, except every published style guide I've seen is for paper. Also the US rules might seem odd to right-side-of-pond readers and vice versa, especially when local spelling is used.
Consistency is all. Because it's true--there are different styles, in different geographic locations, in different publishing houses, and on and on and on.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2022, 07:47 PM   #114
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,288
Karma: 169098402
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Consistency is all. Because it's true--there are different styles, in different geographic locations, in different publishing houses, and on and on and on.
One of my all time favourites for inconsistency happens when an omnibus has different styles for each book in the omnibus. It doesn't take that much effort to diff the stylesheets and then make them consistent across all the books.
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 10:45 AM   #115
Quoth
Still reading
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,098
Karma: 105211945
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
One of my all time favourites for inconsistency happens when an omnibus has different styles for each book in the omnibus. It doesn't take that much effort to diff the stylesheets and then make them consistent across all the books.
Yes, that's mad. Either laziness, incompetence or a bit of both.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 11:07 AM   #116
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,503
Karma: 158448243
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Yes, that's mad. Either laziness, incompetence or a bit of both.
This reminds me of a series I'm reading right now. It's driving me bats**t. It's the Barker & Llewellyn series, right? Done by Touchstone--a real publisher--which is an S&S imprint. Simon & Schuster, for crying out loud!

And what to my wondering eyes should appear? But first-line indent, SPACE BETWEEN paragraphs, in so far, 3 of the 4 books I've bought. Not all of them, mind you--book 2 had proper formatting. But the other 3? And it's absolutely infuriating. It's so distracting!!! And irritating and infuriating.

/grumble /rant.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 11:27 AM   #117
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 79,786
Karma: 146391129
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Also US style—an aside—in the sentence, em dashes with no spaces
UK/IRL style – an aside – in the sentence (en dashes spaced, but em used at end of sentences to show interruption, especially in dialogue with no spaces).

On websites or paper I might use non-breaking spaces, or partial size spaces, but not in ebooks. I do use … character not . . . (triple periods with or without spaces, ideally smaller width, which only works reliably on paper) in ebooks.

I've seen every sort of madness, often inconsistently in the same book, so we have our own set of rules. Other people are free to use their own rules or any of the published style guides, except every published style guide I've seen is for paper. Also the US rules might seem odd to right-side-of-pond readers and vice versa, especially when local spelling is used.
And I will take an eBook with UK style en dashes and fix it to US style em dashes. It reads so much better. en dashes look like a mistake.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 11:29 AM   #118
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 79,786
Karma: 146391129
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
This reminds me of a series I'm reading right now. It's driving me bats**t. It's the Barker & Llewellyn series, right? Done by Touchstone--a real publisher--which is an S&S imprint. Simon & Schuster, for crying out loud!

And what to my wondering eyes should appear? But first-line indent, SPACE BETWEEN paragraphs, in so far, 3 of the 4 books I've bought. Not all of them, mind you--book 2 had proper formatting. But the other 3? And it's absolutely infuriating. It's so distracting!!! And irritating and infuriating.

/grumble /rant.

Hitch
It is issues like these and others which is why I'm saying that some fo the suggestions by roland1 are just not going to work. It's to his benefit to listen and don't do the ones said not to be done as they don't work well.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 02:39 PM   #119
Quoth
Still reading
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,098
Karma: 105211945
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
And I will take an eBook with UK style en dashes and fix it to US style em dashes. It reads so much better. en dashes look like a mistake.
But that is purely your own preference and opinion. If you were formatting ebooks in a publishing business you'd have to apply the house rules.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2022, 02:41 PM   #120
Quoth
Still reading
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,098
Karma: 105211945
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
This reminds me of a series I'm reading right now. It's driving me bats**t. It's the Barker & Llewellyn series, right? Done by Touchstone--a real publisher--which is an S&S imprint. Simon & Schuster, for crying out loud!

And what to my wondering eyes should appear? But first-line indent, SPACE BETWEEN paragraphs, in so far, 3 of the 4 books I've bought. Not all of them, mind you--book 2 had proper formatting. But the other 3? And it's absolutely infuriating. It's so distracting!!! And irritating and infuriating.

/grumble /rant.

Hitch
At least you can probably fix it unless it's on paper? Most people are stuck with what they get.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Filenames on Nook Simple Touch oddly mangled ChristopherTD Devices 2 07-20-2013 06:25 AM
Kobo not charging and mangled USB ports caroliv Kobo Reader 1 01-25-2013 06:57 AM
K3 is mangled - cannot update to 3.4 horizon21 Kindle Developer's Corner 20 10-12-2012 10:31 AM
ebook preview venkatesh General Discussions 12 11-18-2010 11:58 AM
eBook viewer Print Preview settings not saved Agama Calibre 3 08-22-2010 08:04 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:55 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.