Digital Vs. Physical Goods

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

So what is the answer?

Cheap (as in, most people agree this is a reasonable price), accessible, convenient content is a big part of it.

Any technology shift changes how and which artists get paid. A hundred years ago, singers who could put on a great public performance often got paid more than those with excellent vocal skills. Fifty years ago, it was the opposite; recorded music doesn't care how well you move on a stage.

The criteria for "financially successful author" is shifting away from "author with contract with a publishing house;" that's not un-successful, but there are other models.

And the end result is never going to be, "everyone who produces terrific art makes a living at it." There have always been authors who couldn't get published, or whose published works languished during their lives. There have always been genius painters who couldn't sell their works. There have always been poets who could make people weep, who wrote their verses on the backs of accounting notebooks and nobody read them until twenty years after their death. Adding the internet & free instant copies to the world doesn't find those people, doesn't connect them to the audience that would happily pay them well. There has always been more art than payment-for-art, and with the internet turning everyone into potential artists, that's even more obvious now.

I don't know what answers will be discovered. I know that humanity likes art, and so we'll find a way to support it, but the transition between limited distribution (based on resource limitations) and instant-infinite distribution is probably going to be painful to a whole lot of people.

For the time being, the Konrath Method is probably what works best: low prices, no DRM, snappy covers & blurbs, wide distribution, and don't fret the copies that don't sell. This method may not work forever, but it's likely to be useful for the next decade at least.

The fingerprint method? WILL NOT WORK. Not because "people won't put up with it"--as you mentioned, a lot of people will put up with a lot of ridiculous "security" measures. But a portion of the people won't put up with it, and such things can only work if *all* content has to go through them. If the fingerprint ebook readers still read non-fingerprinted content, there'll be plenty of demand for piracy.

The fingerprint data is combined with the file to create on-the-spot a hybrid data/encryption file that is sent directly to your device.

So... you have to have a scanner connected when you buy the book, or download the activated version of it. And the "fingerprint code" is embedded in the ebook itself, which means you can't convert it to your filetype of choice, just whatever filetypes (1) support fingerprint encoding and (2) are licensed by the software the ebook store uses.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Cheap (as in, most people agree this is a reasonable price), accessible, convenient content is a big part of it.

It's already been established that such material is still pirated.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I don't know what answers will be discovered.

That's why I've proposed one that is perfectly feasible and workable. (You're welcome!)

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The fingerprint method? WILL NOT WORK. Not because "people won't put up with it"--as you mentioned, a lot of people will put up with a lot of ridiculous "security" measures. But a portion of the people won't put up with it, and such things can only work if *all* content has to go through them.

Exactly. All hardware and software vendors must adapt the system for it to work. But that is not an impossible requirement, any more than it has been impossible to get all vendors together on any other hardware or software standard. It just takes agreement that it is the best way to progress the industry... versus doing nothing, and allowing piracy to prevent the industry from ever being profitable.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Exactly. All hardware and software vendors must adapt the system for it to work. But that is not an impossible requirement, any more than it has been impossible to get all vendors together on any other hardware or software standard.

Other hardware standards didn't have over a decade of diverse approaches to build on; other software standards didn't have 40 years of variety.

How, exactly, would such a system be implemented? Laws would be written that say "ebooks can only be sold to people using devices with the FS-10 (Fingerprint Scanner 10) software and hardware?" Who would be allowed to develop such software and hardware--and therefore have a stranglehold on the entire ebook industry? Would the devices be compatible with Windows and Linux machines? Would they be sold outside the US?

How would you prevent the current bootleg systems, like the ones that work with the Harry Potter books? What would prevent people from cracking the ebooks or scanning physical books & releasing those versions?

How long to you expect this switch to take--would people be required to give up their old Kindles for new FS10 Kindles? Would Jetbook be required to stop selling their devices?

It just takes agreement that it is the best way to progress the industry... versus doing nothing, and allowing piracy to prevent the industry from ever being profitable.

The industry's being plenty profitable now, for a lot of authors.

And our laws aren't designed to "protect the publishing industry;" they're designed to balance freedoms with societal stability, including some measure of economic stability. Publishers who discover that people won't pay them enough to keep in business have the right to drop out of business, just like people who don't like the restrictions on ebooks have the right to stop reading. Putting extra roadblocks in front of those people won't create more sales.

I don't buy DRM now; I won't be buying hardware-enforced DRM in the future. I don't expect my kids will, either. And while I'm in the minority, it's not a tiny, obscure minority -- and without a worldwide change in laws and draconian enforcement techniques, stricter DRM isn't going to save the industry. It'll just drive more people away from mainstream ebook purchases, whether that's indie publishers, bootleg ebooks, or other forms of entertainment.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

If you want to put me on commission, I'll be glad to write up a proposal for you (and everyone else). Right now, I'm too busy with other projects for such things. In the meantime, you might want to look around, because the world is full of standards that were written for multiple manufacturers and sellers to follow, in order to bring cohesion to an industry... including security standards. There's nothing inherently different about ebooks that wouldn't allow those same principles to apply.

[AMacD]

Originally Posted by lebleaux

An interesting discussion. I don't know what is 'right', but I know what I want to do.

When I have read a physical book I put it on the bookshelf. If another member of my family wants to read it they take it off the shelf and do so. I want to do this with electronic books, have a library stored on the family media server and have those that want to read a book load it onto the reader of their choice. I have a Kindle, my daughter has a Nook, I expect my other daughter will soon have a Kobo, we have a laptop or two in the house etc etc. In order to achieve this I have standardized on a neutral content - epub - and create reader specific versions as required - typically via Calibre. It appears that the current intent of DRM is that I can not/should not do this, I should buy individual versions for each reader. This makes no sense and I will not do it. DRM will drive me to the torrent world OR (in my case anyway) hopefully everyone will support epub.

Yes I am aware that I want to do something that could not be done with physical books and have more than one person reading a 'single' book at once - of course I want to do this, thats why I have invested in digital content, so I can do this and other things like it. What I want is for the publishers to come to me - I am a movin' on.

I guess I am a lot older than most of you because I can still remember the family gathering while we took turns reading out loud from a book. I assume the publishers were upset with this practice, they wanted us all to have our own copies so we could follow along.

I consider restricting a book to the point of losing function a theft on the part of the publishers. Why are they surprised when some people steal from what they perceive to be a thief? My latest flap is not being able to print a recipe from a cookbook to use in the kitchen. It seems I exceeded the clipping allotment with one clip, and no it was not a significant percentage of the book.

[AMacD]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

But I no longer have the Kindle. I agree to be held to the ToS in exchange for using it. How can I still be under the ToS if I don't have it, or the content? It makes no sense to be held to a ToS for a service you no longer have.

Someone queried Amazon Customer Service and specifically asked this question. The reply, which was widely distributed on a multitude of forums was that book content from Amazon must be removed before it may be sold or otherwise transferred to someone else. Of course I can no longer find that reference so I am quoting from memory, which in my case is not very reliable.

[AMacD]

Originally Posted by leebase

...
Having no DRM is pretty close to having no copyright. Copyright exists for the benefit of both content creators and society. If we don't figure out how secure IP for content creators in the digital age, we'll all be poorer.

Lee

Copyright depends on the honesty of the person doing the copying. JK Rowlings books are posted in digital format within 24 hours of arriving in stores in print. I think part of that reason is that digital copies are not available in any other way as the author has repeatedly stated that she does not want digital copies out there, yet her actions have merely shifted the profit to someone else. The fact that something is available is stealable format does not mean that everyone is going to go out and get a copy. In my case it merely meant that I went and read something else. There is enough legitimate material for my Kindle out there that I will never run out of material to read. It is like a fungus, it grows faster than I can get rid of it.

[AMacD]

[QUOTE=bhartman36;1360735]

Stephen King experimented with "pay what you think is fair" and was very disappointed with it. Radiohead also tried it. And even if we agree that the bagel story would be a typical experience, not every business can take a sustained 13% loss due to theft.

"pay what you think is fair" is a far cry from "pay the stated amount". Shareware works this way. I know there are people who keep the shareware, use it and don't pay for it. I also know people who think that the speed limit is off by about 30 MPH and drive appropriately. Both are wrong.

[AMacD]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

A PID across several devices is a good idea... lemme know how you plan on getting Amazon to agree to it. They won't allow a single PID for different device types for the software they own; they want to make sure that Amazon customers can't buy from elsewhere.

I am an Amazon customer. I own a Kindle. About 80% of my stuff is not of Amazon origin. With the exception of free books, I try to avoid DRM books. There is very little restriction on what I can or cannot put on my Kindle. Mobi, prc, txt, PDF directly and any other format that Calibre can handle as long as it is not crippled by DRM. There are thousands of books that are not encumbered by this idiocy, many of which are on Amazon itself. Baen, Right Brane, Gutenberg, feedbooks, manybooks, O'Reilly, Lulu, smashwords to mention just a few.

[AMacD]

Originally Posted by Anke Wehner

How about this: Ditch DRM, and let a buyer enter an owner name at purchase. Put in the book a note, "This books belongs to [name]. If this isn't you, and you enjoyed the book, please consider buying your own copy to support the author", and ALLOW people casual sharing with family and friends.

The TOS now forbidding sharing books with ANYONE is ridiculous. Letting your husband read a book you bought goes against the letter of Amazon TOS. Really. Read them with your common sense switched off, just taking in the content.

Just as ridiculous is the idea that someone lending their book to someone else must be a lost sale, and nothing else. They might be a won reader.

Someone who never heard of the author and read a book after a friend let them read it for free might start buying books by that author.
How many books could you sell to someone who never read at all until they gave in to a friend's "here, I'm sure you'll love it, go on, try!" while pressing a book on them?

Publishers should stop only worrying about getting as large a piece of the cake as possible, and try enlarging the cake.

I agree with Anke - Someone gave me a legal copy of a Baen book when I had a Palm T|X. It was "1632" by Eric Flint. I had never heard of the book or the author. I was hooked. I eventually bought a Kindle1, then a 2 and now a 3, all because someone gave me a legitimate copy. I loaded the book onto the Kindle, searched the Kindle for a unique word in the Palm version and was off and running with my place intact. Eric Flint said he was more afraid of obscurity than piracy. He has sold a lot of books, many of them to me. If that book had been rejected by the Kindle because it had the wrong format, it would have gone back to Amazon. Fortunately for me, it was a compatible format and so I kept the Kindle. I didn't know about the tower of babel when I ordered the Kindle and I should not have to be aware that they were like cell phones, you need several different phones to cover the territory, just like e-readers if you want to read all books from all sources. I guess the iPad comes closest to being a universal reader, although you have to hassle with opening the right app for the right book. I have no objection to DRM if it is transparent. Unfortunately it is not.

[Belle2Be]

Very interesting discussion! If I could, I'd give Karma to everyone!

That said... The day they install fingerprint or DNA scanners to a Book Reader is the day I turn back to paper books. They don't even use fingerprint scanners on most military bases, why the heck would I jump through those hoops for a publisher? I don't care if its the easiest and most efficient scanner in the world, its a violation of privacy for me. Not to mention it'll only raise the cost of books, which will make me more inclined to buy the paper copy, then slide on over to the dark side and get a "fingerprint free" version of the book. Because unless there is an "ebook reader burning", I will still have the e-reader that doesn't force me to sign my life away to read a book.

[Belle2Be]

I do think one solution would be to lower ebook costs. It doesn't make sense for them to cost more or equal to a paperback book, for the resell value alone.

[Jaime_Astorga]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

3) Therefore digital goods are not physical goods, and efforts to make them act like physical goods are simply going to engender giggles.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by leebase

You can only give your book case to one other person. If you give it to me, you cannot give it to your mom and you would not longer have it yourself.

But what if you could just "copy" the book shelf? Not only copy it, but instantly transmit it every where in the world for free (or next to no cost).

Do you think Ikea could still have a business under such a scenario?

No, Ikea would have been made obsolete. And that would be a good thing. Things become obsolete when newer and better things replace them. Having Ikea around isn't an end goal in itself; the goal is for everybody to have furniture. Ikea, like other businesses, makes money because people have a need, and they trade dollars in order to have them met. But if everybody could have their needs met without having to give up anything in return, why should that not be done?

Now, the situation with eBooks isn't exactly analogous, because writing books isn't something that can be done at negligible costs by computers (yet), even if the making and distributing of copies is. But it's important to keep an eye on the big picture... the picture that isn't a couple of industries going down and an unprofitable profession or two, but a complete revolution in technology that in the long term makes life better for the vast majority of humanity. Casual copying and distribution is what really makes digital files as much a step up from printed books as the printing press was a step up from scribes taking years to hand-copy every book that was made; the rest of the advantages are trivialities.

[AMacD]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

If you want to put me on commission, I'll be glad to write up a proposal for you (and everyone else). Right now, I'm too busy with other projects for such things. In the meantime, you might want to look around, because the world is full of standards that were written for multiple manufacturers and sellers to follow, in order to bring cohesion to an industry... including security standards. There's nothing inherently different about ebooks that wouldn't allow those same principles to apply.

Steve, if you had stayed out of this very long thread you would be several chapters farther into your latest book, which I am anxiously awaiting. I read them faster than you write them. This is not to say you didn't have anything good to say, but that this whole thread is a waste of time; yours, mine and everyone else's.

[AMacD]

I don't have the option of going back to paper books, which are cheaper and more widely available than e-books. I am stuck with an e-book reader that has enlargeable print or one heck of a big magnifying glass. I also like the ability to instantly look something up in a dictionary, the search feature and the downloading anywhere my Kindle can see an AT&T cell tower.