Digital Vs. Physical Goods

[Penforhire]

I love me some biometrics. I have a fingerprint scanner in my 'business grade' laptop and it is SO convenient. Not entirely hacker-proof but we fool around at the office and we can't seem to fake each other's prints so it fundamentally works. If I could do more with biometrics, like use it to pay with a credit card, I certainly would.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

That's how I think it should work. You put a subroutine into the file that asks for an identifier (like your name and credit card number), and then you go on about your reading.

Requires that you remember that credit card number for the life of the book. Card numbers aren't necessarily permanent. Also, limits the devices you can read on to "those that have the software to allow input of card number" -- B&N can't sell to Sony customers because Sony hasn't changed their DRM software.

It's a nice idea, but so far, companies that want to lock users to their store won't install someone else's ID-checking software.

A PID across several devices is a good idea... lemme know how you plan on getting Amazon to agree to it. They won't allow a single PID for different device types for the software they own; they want to make sure that Amazon customers can't buy from elsewhere.

And even if we agree that the bagel story would be a typical experience, not every business can take a sustained 13% loss due to theft.

Publishing manages a 50% return rate; what kind of loss of goods is that? A 13% "theft" rate of infinite goods is not the same as theft of limited goods. What we're talking about is a 13% avoiding-payment rate, like extra people in the car at a drive-in, not like people who walk out of a store with a CD under their coats.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Requires that you remember that credit card number for the life of the book. Card numbers aren't necessarily permanent. Also, limits the devices you can read on to "those that have the software to allow input of card number" -- B&N can't sell to Sony customers because Sony hasn't changed their DRM software.

I don't think a credit card would be a good system. I think it's got to be based on a unique number, like the PID. (See below.)

It's a nice idea, but so far, companies that want to lock users to their store won't install someone else's ID-checking software.

A PID across several devices is a good idea... lemme know how you plan on getting Amazon to agree to it. They won't allow a single PID for different device types for the software they own; they want to make sure that Amazon customers can't buy from elsewhere.

A well-implemented universal system would benefit Amazon. If any device could use the Amazon Kindle store, it wouldn't be a problem. Allowing Kindle users to buy from other stores by downloading over USB would be a more attractive proposition if other vendors allowed users of their devices to buy from Amazon. After all, they're the biggest e-book store, aren't they?

Publishing manages a 50% return rate; what kind of loss of goods is that? A 13% "theft" rate of infinite goods is not the same as theft of limited goods. What we're talking about is a 13% avoiding-payment rate, like extra people in the car at a drive-in, not like people who walk out of a store with a CD under their coats.

The reason it's different than your drive-in analogy is that each person keeps their copy, and can themselves redistribute it. It's more like going to the drive-in, filming the screen, and then redistributing it on your Web page. Except when you film the screen, there's a loss of quality, whereas a digital copy of a book doesn't have that loss.

And if the paper book return rate is 50%, how excited do you think publishers are going to be to take an additional 13% hit (and that's almost certainly being optimistic, because we're comparing two dissimilar items).

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by KevinH

And doomed to fail. I will not give anyone my fingerprints just to read a book.

An over-reaction: Such a system could embed a purchaser's ID, presented at purchase, without leaving a record of that data at the seller's location. So you wouldn't be "giving" anyone your fingerprint.

Examples of security measures that initially meet resistance, but are eventually accepted by the public, are numerous. There's no reason to expect such a system could not be implemented and accepted in time.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

I love me some biometrics. I have a fingerprint scanner in my 'business grade' laptop and it is SO convenient. Not entirely hacker-proof but we fool around at the office and we can't seem to fake each other's prints so it fundamentally works. If I could do more with biometrics, like use it to pay with a credit card, I certainly would.

I expect future credit cards will include coded versions of fingerprints or some other biometric data, providing a better proof of identity than 4-digit pin numbers and signatures in transactions.

[Anke Wehner]

How about this: Ditch DRM, and let a buyer enter an owner name at purchase. Put in the book a note, "This books belongs to [name]. If this isn't you, and you enjoyed the book, please consider buying your own copy to support the author", and ALLOW people casual sharing with family and friends.

The TOS now forbidding sharing books with ANYONE is ridiculous. Letting your husband read a book you bought goes against the letter of Amazon TOS. Really. Read them with your common sense switched off, just taking in the content.

Just as ridiculous is the idea that someone lending their book to someone else must be a lost sale, and nothing else. They might be a won reader.

Someone who never heard of the author and read a book after a friend let them read it for free might start buying books by that author.
How many books could you sell to someone who never read at all until they gave in to a friend's "here, I'm sure you'll love it, go on, try!" while pressing a book on them?

Publishers should stop only worrying about getting as large a piece of the cake as possible, and try enlarging the cake.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

An over-reaction: Such a system could embed a purchaser's ID, presented at purchase, without leaving a record of that data at the seller's location. So you wouldn't be "giving" anyone your fingerprint.

Examples of security measures that initially meet resistance, but are eventually accepted by the public, are numerous. There's no reason to expect such a system could not be implemented and accepted in time.

Yes, just like full body scanners at airports. You must love those too. I am so glad I am Canadian. The solution is not to simply increase security at the expense of personal freedom. Sad really.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Baen succeeds, in part, by convincing customers it's worth paying, and by reminding them that if they don't pay, Baen can't keep giving them what they want. In a world where copies are easy--and they're never going to get harder--Authors and publishers will have to use some variant of that method.

I love Baen, but we don't know what we don't know. We don't know what Baen's financials are. Flint's articles on his sales are 8 years old. We don't know what the results of their practice will be as eReaders become the FAVORITE way to read books.

We don't know what Baen's authors make compared to Tor's. We don't know what Baen makes compared to Tor.

So yes, Baen is definitely worth watching - but until information is actually published about their results, they cannot simply be held up as proof of anything other than "at least one company doesn't use DRM".

Lee

[PitterPat]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Now, I don't see the non-technical book lover going on to a torrent site and sharing their book with 100,000 of their closest "friends", but because e-readers are a tech gadget, technically-adept people are going to be attracted to them.

I think this is rapidly changing. I hear more and more about people without computers getting ereaders.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Proposing that authors make their money from public readings, book signings, etc., will result in fewer people writing,

Anyone who writes specifically to make money will a: confine their writing to topics that they *think* will be popular and therefore make the most profit; and b: will almost certainly end up disappointed when they find out that even fairly well known established writers are barely above minimum wage level anyway.

There are lots of reasons for wanting to write, financial gain will be very low for most people. Just as it is for musicians, artists, etc.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Authors and publishers need to figure out how much of their fanbase has never been their paid-customer base, and start working on the problem from that direction, not on the "stop people from reading what they haven't bought" idea. Most of us grew up reading books we hadn't bought.

It's the people currently buying second hand paperbacks that have the potential to massively increase publisher profits, but that will rely on the publishers getting the price/convenience factors right. I can't really see them doing that, unfortunately.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

True. However, it could work if it was modified to adhere to the principle that "only a registered USER can view this content."

Doing so would require an ID verification module on whatever device you used to read a document... verify your ID with a thumbprint scan, say, and the doc opens.

Then if you lose your thumb you would lose all your content. It would need to be done through DNA, tied directly into your government's DNA database, and with a camera on the front of the ebook reader so that a photograph of the reader was uploaded for verification purposes. Just in case anyone was crooked enough to lend their reader to someone else, or people started sharing bottles of their spit along with their ebooks.

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It's the people currently buying second hand paperbacks that have the potential to massively increase publisher profits, but that will rely on the publishers getting the price/convenience factors right. I can't really see them doing that, unfortunately.

There is an obvious advantage for Digital Vs. Physical books.

It would be hard to offer all the works of all the artists or authors to the
public, as physical media. Can you imagine the warehousing and distribution
requirements? So there is a practical limit to what a physical media retailer
can offer at one time.

Not a problem for digital media/books. If you discover an artist or author you
like you could have the option of buying any or all of his earlier works. There
need never be anything "out of print". A retailer can maintain all an author's
works ready for sale with little warehousing cost. How many works are no
longer making money for the Author, Publisher, and Retailer just because
there is no longer any of those books available for purchase?

A book "run" might be a certain number of books, and for a physical book it is
a guess as to how that will meet the demand, over the time it spends as a
book that is "in print". Not an issue for the digital book. Once the one digital
book is available, it can be sold forever, it takes up few resources to remain
on hand. It can be available when a current event or resurgence of the
author's popularity makes for a spike in demand.

Not taking advantage of these features of the digital book seems a waste
and a real missing opportunity to capitalize on the works that are already
produced.

Luck;
Ken

[Penforhire]

Mr Ploppy, my fingerprint reader already 'registers' all ten fingers. It is common to have a particular finger, say, in a bandaid for a minor injury. Now if I lose all ten fingertips I have bigger problems than accessing my biometric-locked stuff...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Yes, just like full body scanners at airports. You must love those too. I am so glad I am Canadian. The solution is not to simply increase security at the expense of personal freedom. Sad really.

The solution is to increase security to ensure availability of the products you want. It's not a "personal freedom" issue... stop overreacting.

Pfft. Canadians.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Then if you lose your thumb you would lose all your content. It would need to be done through DNA, tied directly into your government's DNA database, and with a camera on the front of the ebook reader so that a photograph of the reader was uploaded for verification purposes. Just in case anyone was crooked enough to lend their reader to someone else, or people started sharing bottles of their spit along with their ebooks.

No, it wouldn't need to be that unnecessarily complicated. We're talking about document security for books, not plutonium pellets. Scan more than 1 finger, and chill.