Kindlers Boycott $10+ ebooks

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Daithi

PROFIT!!!!
. . .
I have to believe the margin on ebooks is huge.

The fallacy of the list is that it assumes that each of these points constitute the bulk of the cost. More importantly, it assumes that no pbook version is created. And, even more importantly, it assumes that ebook sales do not cannibalize pbook sales.

It does a publisher no good if they print 10,000 hardcover copies of a book for sale at $24.95 and simultaneously release an ebook version at $9.99 if they do not recover the costs of printing the hardcover version through sale of the pbook. There is a symbiotic relationship between ebooks and pbooks that has to be maintained for the publishing industry to survive.

Whether the industry should survive or whether it should survive in its present form is a different question. However, authors and consumers would both be adversely impacted, in my opinion, if the industry does not survive. Publishers do bring a lot of benefits to books -- including to both authors and readers -- benefits that will not be adequately replaced by direct publishing by authors.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by Daithi

Once again, you don't know what the list price is for ebooks. I don't know what the list price is for ebooks. I'm willing to admit that I don't know.

Why would the publisher charge less for an ebook? See my last post.

List price is an arbitrary number that the publisher comes up with. They have decided that the list price of an ebook is the same as the pbook.

And I agree with you why the publisher should charge less, I'm just saying I don't think they see it that way.

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by rhadin

I was just giving a price point example. I am not assuming that all ebooks have a MSRP of $24.95. Some do, some don't.

Easy enough to calculate for someone who has the time and desire. Simply take the list of bestsellers that Amazon is selling at $9.99 and go to the publisher's website to find out the MSRP. Then calculate the 35% to establish Amazon's take.

Your still assuming that the MSRP of an ebook is the same as the MSRP of a hardback book. It is possible, maybe even likely, that the MSRP of an ebook is not the same as a hardback. Furthermore, none of us has any idea what the split is that Amazon and the big publishers have agreed upon.

[Wetdogeared]

Originally Posted by Daithi

Your still assuming that the MSRP of an ebook is the same as the MSRP of a hardback book. It is possible, maybe even likely, that the MSRP of an ebook is not the same as a hardback. Furthermore, none of us has any idea what the split is that Amazon and the big publishers have agreed upon.

Exactly! And who has clarified, up to this post, that Amazon's percentage is based on the MSRP of an eBook. They are a large enough distributor to negotiate with the publisheers for a better deal. Or am I missing something here; do publishers have to sell their eBooks to all distributors at the same price and with the same percentage split?

WDE. (I'm on the fence here on placing the blame for the exhorbitant price of eBooks)

[Knipfty]

I am glad to see that the mocking of the earlier posts has turned into a rigorous debate. Many of the issues being discussed have been discussed on the other forum. But I will summarize the few that I believe are important:

- No one has ever suggested that the Author, the Publisher and/or Amazon should not make a profit, we Kindle readers just think there should be something in it for use as electronic distribution is inherently less expensive than DTB distribution.

- We already except that PBs should cost less than hardcover, why shouldn't an ebook cost less than a PB?

- We see no reason not to let publishers know why we are not purchasing an ebook when the price is too high. Everyone of you can decide on that price point.

- We understand that the publisher sets the List Price and Amazon sets the Retail Price. We believe further that Amazon reimburses the publisher some percentage of the List Price regardless of what Amazon actually sells the ebook for. We just don't know what that percentage is.

- Finally, we understand that there are advantages to ebooks beyond price. Though many of us believe price is #1.

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by rhadin

The fallacy of the list is that it assumes that each of these points constitute the bulk of the cost. More importantly, it assumes that no pbook version is created. And, even more importantly, it assumes that ebook sales do not cannibalize pbook sales.

It does a publisher no good if they print 10,000 hardcover copies of a book for sale at $24.95 and simultaneously release an ebook version at $9.99 if they do not recover the costs of printing the hardcover version through sale of the pbook. There is a symbiotic relationship between ebooks and pbooks that has to be maintained for the publishing industry to survive.

Whether the industry should survive or whether it should survive in its present form is a different question. However, authors and consumers would both be adversely impacted, in my opinion, if the industry does not survive. Publishers do bring a lot of benefits to books -- including to both authors and readers -- benefits that will not be adequately replaced by direct publishing by authors.

None of the "assumptions" that you listed had any bearing on my arguement. If you are going to argue that the items I listed aren't major cost components of producing books then this argument has become pointless. Furthermore, the list I provided simply provided reasons for why ebooks should cost less than pbooks, so whether or not the publisher also produces pbooks is immaterial.

If I produce 2 items and one cost me $12 to manufacture and the other costs me $5 to manufacture then I would need to sell product A for $17 to make $5 in profit and item B for $10 to make the same amount of profit. (This isn't even taking into account 'profit margins' but the math easier). The point is that product B should have a lower price than product A, and whether or not product B cannabilizes product A is immaterial.

Lastly, I never argued that publishers should be replaced by authors publishing directly. I said publishers that don't embrace ebooks deserve to go out of business, so that's all I have to say in regards to your strawman arguement.

[kevindorsey]

It comes down to consumer choice. Personally, I am willing to pay over 9.99 for a book on a Kindle. It adds significant convenience into my life. But if you guys get a strike started and all Kindle books drop in price, I won't complain

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

That's what stinks! I was really angry that one of the Dresden Files books was ridiculously overpriced (not just on Sony, but everywhere else except for Kindle), and I couldn't buy it anywhere else. But I want to read it, so I have to go get it in pbook. So the publisher still gets my money. Grrrr (yes I did send them an email). But now that I think about it, I should have just found a used copy.

Trading used copies of books en mass is the one tactic that would really make some waves with publishers and authors. It is in their best interest to stop this practice, which generates zero income, even at the expense of lower prices on ebooks.

I agree with the stand the boycotters are taking, especially in light of the smug and arrogant comments given by some publishers concerning ebook prices. To stand up for a principle is sometimes tough. But, sadly, there will always be certain people who will blindly pay whatever the publishers demand for new books even though it hurts themselves in the long run.

[Studio717]

Originally Posted by akira28

Trading used copies of books en mass is the one tactic that would really make some waves with publishers and authors. It is in their best interest to stop this practice, which generates zero income, even at the expense of lower prices on ebooks.

...

Make waves? By making it impossible for authors to support themselves and keep writing? If you have favorite authors, you might want to rethink this strategy.

Again, I agree that ebook pricing is wonky. But harming authors over something they have no control over will not change what you want changed.

[Knipfty]

Originally Posted by Studio717

Make waves? By making it impossible for authors to support themselves and keep writing? If you have favorite authors, you might want to rethink this strategy.

Again, I agree that ebook pricing is wonky. But harming authors over something they have no control over will not change what you want changed.

So I should just buy a book at whatever price a publisher decides to charge? By not buying an overpriced book, you are sending a msg to the publisher. The author unfortunately is collateral damage. But the author is the one that signed up with that publisher. So the author should be screaming at the publisher, if they cared...

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Knipfty

So I should just buy a book at whatever price a publisher decides to charge? By not buying an overpriced book, you are sending a msg to the publisher. The author unfortunately is collateral damage. But the author is the one that signed up with that publisher. So the author should be screaming at the publisher, if they cared...

Do you honestly think simply not buying sends the message you want? IMO it's more likely to give publishers, many of whom are shaky on ebooks the way it is, more ammo to say 'see ebooks don't sell'. You need to not buy it and then let them know why you're not buying it.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by Studio717

Make waves? By making it impossible for authors to support themselves and keep writing? If you have favorite authors, you might want to rethink this strategy.

Again, I agree that ebook pricing is wonky. But harming authors over something they have no control over will not change what you want changed.

I'm with you on that one. I was thinking about it today and thought, maybe if I do that then I'll send a check to the author for their cut. I'd be cool with that.

Anemic- I think that's why blogging about it would be super effective. You say, "This book was $17 as an ebook, even though it's a $8 paperback, so I got it such and such place where the publisher gets no revenue."

Maybe we should all just send an email to the publisher each time we do that.

[fugazied]

Power to the people!!
I haven't given it much thought, but it's a good cause I suppose, we shouldn't pay such high prices for ebooks which essentially have distribution costs of cents as opposed to dollars in the paper version (the paper version also having additional retailer costs and display costs).

No doubt the publisher is just taking that additional profit, it would be different if the Author got more of the profit from those highly profitable ebooks but they don't. It amounts to price goughing.

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by akira28

Trading used copies of books en mass

I do this all the time with PaperBackSwap - the only cost is the postage when you mail your old books to someone else.

[Knipfty]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Do you honestly think simply not buying sends the message you want? IMO it's more likely to give publishers, many of whom are shaky on ebooks the way it is, more ammo to say 'see ebooks don't sell'. You need to not buy it and then let them know why you're not buying it.

Yes I believe it does send a msg. And I have emailed one publisher, Simon & Schuster, almost 3 weeks ago, and have not received a response. I emailed the author of one of the books, 1.5 weeks ago, and have received no response.

Here's a thought, if the publisher cannot price the ebook correctly, I don't want it. I have so much to choose from with my Kindle, that I could read until the cows come home and never spend another dime. And while I don't condone the behavior, I have found several sites giving away copyrighted books (many not even available as an ebook).

I fully expect that an ebook to cost less than any DTB. I expect the digital price to lower than any DTB. I expect Amazon to discount it approprately from there to give us some real savings. After all, I am the consumer, its my money to spend or not spend. The publishers need to wake up.