Kindlers Boycott $10+ ebooks

[Studio717]

Originally Posted by Knipfty

I cannot tell the difference between the publisher and the author. As far as I am concerned they are one in the same as the author has signed up with the publisher. I have mailed on author and still have not received a reply from them. In some postings, the authors claim that the publishers are not responsive to their emails.

I expect that my Kindle ebooks to cost less than any new DTB. I had a conversation with a publishing industry person on the train one morning back in January. She was proofreading on a Sony unit and I had my Kindle open. Somewhere during the conversation we got on to the topic of pricing. Her stance and that of much of the major publishers was that I am paying for content, how I choose to read it was my business, but the I was paying for the content. I disagree.

If you're expecting authors to have any control over the price of their books, whether cover price or a discount price, then you are going to be disappointed. Perhaps very high level authors like Stephen King may have that kind of power, but very few other authors do.

Also, with publishing in such dire straits at the moment, with massive layoffs and consolidations, if any aspect of what they are doing is losing money, it probably won't survive. Remember, ebooks are still only a small fraction of their profits.

My opinion is that, at this point in the game, the publishers are not the ones who will suffer much from this action, but the authors.

Note that I do think it's wrong for an ebook to cost more than a printed book, even though the differences in the costs of production are probably not as great as most would believe.

What I'm saying here is that authors will be hurt if their books do not sell. It's a simple equation to the publishers. They aren't thinking, "oh, Author A's books aren't selling. Our prices on ebooks must be too high." They are more likely thinking what I wrote before, "Author A's books aren't selling, don't buy any more manuscripts from him or her."

I believe that a blogging campaign would be much more effective and do less harm to individual authors.

(All imo, of course.)

[lilac_jive]

Studio, I agree a blogging campaign would be an excellent idea. There should be one where people write about specific experiences. Anyone got some free time?

[MV64]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

They never had an "original $9.99" max price point for ALL books This is a quote from the Kindle page.

"Whether you prefer biographies, classics, investment guides, thrillers, or sci-fi, thousands of your favorite books are available, including 103 of 111 books currently found on the New York Times® Best Seller list. New York Times Best Sellers and most new releases are $9.99, and you'll find many books for less."

These people seem to think that if Amazon charges more for new books, they are being cheated somehow. Its an old, old topic, there is a thread here on it, and a long running one one the Amazon Kindle page.

They've gotten stuck, somehow, on the mistaken notion that Amazon said no book would be over $9.99.

Is that what it is? If I had a kindle I'd be part of this group.

I wouldn't have believed that NO book was over 9.99, btu an ebook should always be cheaper than the print version. It costs much less to make. I think a $10 new release, especially since they don't require any proofreading, etc. that I'm aware of (they have digital forms now), would be reasonable. There's no way I'm paying $18 for a book that I could pick up in print for the same price or less.

I don't think it's so unreasonable.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Daithi

How do we know that Amazon is actually taking a loss on the best sellers? I've heard this premise stated on several occassions, but is this a documented fact or is it just conjecture?

Every bookseller calculates the amount owed to the publisher based on the publisher's list price for the book. Note that it is the publisher's list price, not the actual selling price.

I do not know what the precise agreement is between say Random House and Amazon as regards percentages. I believe the split is 65-35, with the publisher getting 65%, which means on a list price of $24.95, the publisher would get $16.22 and Amazon would get $8.73.

Even if Amazon isn't losing on every sale, it is making at best pennies and nickels, not enough to sustain a business model.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Daithi

The publishers also have an incentive to increase overall ebook sales, so they may be sharing the cost of the price reduction with Amazon.

What incentive do the publishers have to increase ebook sales? Readers will buy a book they are interested in from among the formats that are available. It is the rare reader who will only buy an ebook and who will refuse to buy a pbook if the book he/she wants is only available as a pbook.

Remember that people who read ebooks are still a very small number of readers and that although ebook sales have been increasing, total sales are still miniscule compared to overall book sales.

Additionally, if you speak to publishers (something I do as part of my business), you will find that many would love to find a way to not deal with Amazon at all. It isn't practical, considering Amazon's market reach, but reluctant brides aren't happy brides and don't voluntarily increase their unhappiness.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Even if Amazon isn't losing on every sale, it is making at best pennies and nickels, not enough to sustain a business model.

Yep. And we know that other stores are not able to follow suit. If Fictionwise could charge that little, I bet they would rather than lose market to Amazon.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by rhadin

What incentive do the publishers have to increase ebook sales? Readers will buy a book they are interested in from among the formats that are available. It is the rare reader who will only buy an ebook and who will refuse to buy a pbook if the book he/she wants is only available as a pbook.

Remember that people who read ebooks are still a very small number of readers and that although ebook sales have been increasing, total sales are still miniscule compared to overall book sales.

Additionally, if you speak to publishers (something i do as part of my business), you will find that many would love to find a way to not deal with Amazon at all. it isn't practical, considering Amazon's market reach, but reluctant brides aren't happy brides and don't voluntarily increase their unhappiness.

My only hope is that the market continues to grow and publisher's will work harder to tap into that market since the potential for higher profit margins is there.

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by Studio717

Also, with publishing in such dire straits at the moment, with massive layoffs and consolidations, if any aspect of what they are doing is losing money, it probably won't survive.

I doubt any publisher can afford to completely walk away from ebooks and expect to survive long term. Can you imagine any major record label today that refused to offer their content in an e-format?

[SpiderMatt]

This could be good for Amazon and consumers if the group gets big enough. Amazon could use it as clout against publishers to get them to push down e-book prices. Don't forget, Amazon draws a lot of inspiration from Apple and is probably looking to do what Apple did with music: gain a strong enough foothold to dictate cheap prices and profit from it.

I don't think this boycott is silly or that people misunderstand the Amazon's pricing or anything else. These people clearly feel that e-books should be cheap (something I'd think most on this forum could sympathize with). It makes sense that if one person made a personal choice not to purchase books over $9.99, he'd want to bring attention to this and why he does it. Looks like it's working to some extent.

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Every bookseller calculates the amount owed to the publisher based on the publisher's list price for the book. Note that it is the publisher's list price, not the actual selling price.

I do not know what the precise agreement is between say Random House and Amazon as regards percentages. I believe the split is 65-35, with the publisher getting 65%, which means on a list price of $24.95, the publisher would get $16.22 and Amazon would get $8.73.

Even if Amazon isn't losing on every sale, it is making at best pennies and nickels, not enough to sustain a business model.

Your assuming the list price of an ebook is the same as the hardcover price. The list price of paperback books is definately not the same as the list price of hardback books, so assuming the list price of an ebook is $24.95 is most likely wrong. The ebook list price may very well be $9.99.

Is Amazon making a profit at $9.99? I have no idea, but neither does anyone else here, and that was my point.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by Daithi

Your assuming the list price of an ebook is the same as the hardcover price. The list price of paperback books is definately not the same as the list price of hardback books, so assuming the list price of an ebook is $24.95 is most likely wrong. The ebook list price may very well be $9.99.

Is Amazon making a profit at $9.99? I have no idea, but neither does anyone else here, and that was my point.

The publisher will set the list price. It can be whatever they want it to be.

The publisher has little incentive to lower the prices. As long as they are getting their cut, why would they change? A lot of these big box publishers seem to be ambivalent to the whole ebook market anyway. If they refuse to drop prices, what happens? If they pull out of the ebook market (the publishers), amazon loses those titles.

Walmart can do it, only because they can outsource and get cheaper products as replacement. You can't outsource books though (well, you can, but you understand).

I'm just thinking out loud here. I really think the best way to handle this is to start blogging and showing publishers lost sales.

On another note, I'm super excited that the new Dresden Files book is on Sony for $11.99. I'm not at that point yet but I'm going to pick it up anyway. I'm happy enough with that price.

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by rhadin

What incentive do the publishers have to increase ebook sales?

PROFIT!!!!

I have to believe the margin on ebooks is huge.

• No printing costs
• No storage costs
• No transportation costs
• No brick and mortar stores
• No reimbursing of unsold books
• No used book market
• Never goes out of print

If publishers can't see the benefits of ebooks, and if they don't actively promote this business, then they deserve to go out of business. Furthermore, the best way to promote ebooks is lower prices.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Daithi

Your assuming the list price of an ebook is the same as the hardcover price.

I was just giving a price point example. I am not assuming that all ebooks have a MSRP of $24.95. Some do, some don't.

Originally Posted by Daithi

Is Amazon making a profit at $9.99? I have no idea, but neither does anyone else here, and that was my point.

Easy enough to calculate for someone who has the time and desire. Simply take the list of bestsellers that Amazon is selling at $9.99 and go to the publisher's website to find out the MSRP. Then calculate the 35% to establish Amazon's take.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by Daithi

PROFIT!!!!

I have to believe the margin on ebooks is huge.

• No printing costs
• No storage costs
• No transportation costs
• No brick and mortar stores
• No reimbursing of unsold books
• No used book market
• Never goes out of print

If publishers can't see the benefits of ebooks, and if they don't actively promote this business, then they deserve to go out of business. Furthermore, the best way to promote ebooks is lower prices.

I'll play the devil's advocate here and give counterpoints:
-Huge initial investment of data storage
-Potential reworking of contracts for ebook sales.
-Potential for lost sales with more ebook copies being pirated

Etc. Not like I believe it.

But now we're at the point of why should they lower prices, since most publishers are working in the ebook market. They're making huge profits on ebooks, why change that? Personally I think it'll be years before we start seeing a drop in price.

This is from a group of people who have been running their businesses blind for decades. Which is why I think small publishers and big publishers who are doing it right (Harlequin, Hachette/Orbit) are going to kick some serious ass.

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

The publisher will set the list price. It can be whatever they want it to be.

The publisher has little incentive to lower the prices. As long as they are getting their cut, why would they change?

Once again, you don't know what the list price is for ebooks. I don't know what the list price is for ebooks. I'm willing to admit that I don't know.

Why would the publisher charge less for an ebook? See my last post.