Shannara coming to television

[shalym]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I interpreted Ravensknight's post as meaning that a good book is one that can be enjoyed by readers of all ages, not that every single reader is going to enjoy it; the latter is clearly not true for any book.

To me, saying "a good book can be enjoyed by readers of all ages" makes no more sense than saying "every single person is going to enjoy a book"

If even one member of each "age group" enjoys a book, then it can be said that the book is "enjoyed by readers of all ages". I truly enjoy reading books that are targeted to different age groups--there are books written for infants that I enjoy just as much as I enjoy books that were written for adults.

What invalidated Ravensknight's statement for me was the inclusion of the phrase "good book" as if that phrase was universal in any way. It's not--it never has been, and never will be. It's a judgement, and can never be objectively measured.

Shari

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by shalym

What invalidated Ravensknight's statement for me was the inclusion of the phrase "good book" as if that phrase was universal in any way. It's not--it never has been, and never will be. It's a judgement, and can never be objectively measured.

Exactly.
In addition to that, it implied that a "good author" never has a target age group in mind when writing. Which is, of course, silly.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by shalym

What invalidated Ravensknight's statement for me was the inclusion of the phrase "good book" as if that phrase was universal in any way. It's not--it never has been, and never will be. It's a judgement, and can never be objectively measured.

I really must, with the greatest respect, disagree with you. Would you accept that there's such a thing as a bad book? (eg a book which is poorly-written). If one can objectively say that a book is bad, can one not also objectively say that a book is good? I believe one can. That's a different thing to saying that I personally enjoy a book: that is indeed a subjectively judgement.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I really must, with the greatest respect, disagree with you. Would you accept that there's such a thing as a bad book? (eg a book which is poorly-written). If one can objectively say that a book is bad, can one not also objectively say that a book is good? I believe one can. That's a different thing to saying that I personally enjoy a book: that is indeed a subjectively judgement.

No, I wouldn't accept that there's such a thing as a "bad book"--at least in the sense that *everyone* considers it a "bad book". Of course, there are books that I consider "bad books" that you and others consider "good books", just like there are books that I consider "good books" that you and others consider to be "bad books".

What I am saying is there is no such thing as a universal judgement of value...that's why the word "judgement" is in there. As long as one person disagrees with the opinion (note that "opinion" also connotes subjectivity) then it can not be universal.

Shari

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by shalym

I've never heard of a book that was enjoyed by everyone--can you give me an example?

Shari

Who said ANYTHING about enjoyment? You need to stop putting words into my posts that aren't there.

Thank you...

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

But not everybody can read a good book and appreciate it. I read good books, regardless of the targeted age group. I'm old enough to have a great nephew, and greatly enjoy the Harry Potter series, the books of Tamora Pierce and many so called young adult books. I also greatly enjoy many books written for adults.

Exactly.

[Ken Maltby]

So at what age am I supposed to stop liking Heinlein's "Juvenile" books? Would that include "Citizen of the Galaxy"? I'm only 68, so I have a few years yet? Right? Don't I ..?

Luck;
Ken

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

Who said ANYTHING about enjoyment? You need to stop putting words into my posts that aren't there.

Thank you...

Ok...so now I'm confused. What did you mean when you said "A GOOD book is written for everyone..." I took that to mean that there were books that were declared to be a "good book" by everyone, no matter what age group. Did you mean that a book couldn't be "good" if an author had certain age groups in mind when the book was written? So can you give me an example of what you would consider a "good" book? And conversely, can you give me an example of a book that is NOT a "good" book simply because it was intended to appeal to a certain age group?

Shari

PS--I used the word "enjoyed" because if a book isn't enjoyed by people, what in the world makes it good?

[HomeInMyShoes]

This thread took a most entertaining turn. I can only hope the series turns out as humorous and enjoyable. The whole Joan of Arc debate was pure mobileread candy.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

This thread took a most entertaining turn. I can only hope the series turns out as humorous and enjoyable. The whole Joan of Arc debate was pure mobileread candy.

Diap is a very, very funny fellow. Not to mention, smart as a whip.

Hitch

[Apache]

My wife says I am smart. Although she adds another word behind smart.
Apache

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by shalym

No, I wouldn't accept that there's such a thing as a "bad book"--at least in the sense that *everyone* considers it a "bad book". Of course, there are books that I consider "bad books" that you and others consider "good books", just like there are books that I consider "good books" that you and others consider to be "bad books".

What I am saying is there is no such thing as a universal judgement of value...that's why the word "judgement" is in there. As long as one person disagrees with the opinion (note that "opinion" also connotes subjectivity) then it can not be universal.

Shari

Oh, I dunno. I've seen some things, in my travels, particularly around the KDP, that I think are pretty universally considered "bad books," except, perhaps, by the person who wrote it. There are some things that are flat-out unreadable. If a book is literally incoherent, how can anyone disagree that it's a bad book?

A book, if naught else, MUST be readable; it has to be able to convey its ideas, its characters, its plot or theme or whatever to an average reader (for its target market). If it is unable to do that, due to the exceedingly poor quality of the writing, I don't think that it can be, by anyone's lights, a "good" book. It fails by definition, on the face of the thing.

Juz sayin'.

Hitch

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Oh, I dunno. I've seen some things, in my travels, particularly around the KDP, that I think are pretty universally considered "bad books," except, perhaps, by the person who wrote it. There are some things that are flat-out unreadable. If a book is literally incoherent, how can anyone disagree that it's a bad book?

A book, if naught else, MUST be readable; it has to be able to convey its ideas, its characters, its plot or theme or whatever to an average reader (for its target market). If it is unable to do that, due to the exceedingly poor quality of the writing, I don't think that it can be, by anyone's lights, a "good" book. It fails by definition, on the face of the thing.

Juz sayin'.

Hitch

I don't know...there are books that others consider *great* books that I find to be unreadable...and before you come back and say that I'm not the target market, I have to say that this whole debate started because someone didn't like reading books about children who were heroes, and it morphed from there into someone else saying that "A GOOD book is written for everyone..."

Shari

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

This thread took a most entertaining turn. I can only hope the series turns out as humorous and enjoyable. The whole Joan of Arc debate was pure mobileread candy.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Diap is a very, very funny fellow. Not to mention, smart as a whip.

Hitch

I'm blushing.

Most people don't get my dry sense of humor. Especially since I throw it out there sans-emoticona most times.

As far as a grand-unifying fantasy television-series, and Joan of Arc theory; I'll just say that I was sad to see Joan of Arcadia get canceled, and leave it at that. Go Shannara!!

Spoiler:

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by shalym

I don't know...there are books that others consider *great* books that I find to be unreadable...and before you come back and say that I'm not the target market, I have to say that this whole debate started because someone didn't like reading books about children who were heroes, and it morphed from there into someone else saying that "A GOOD book is written for everyone..."

Shari

Nope, I literally simply meant, that some books aren't unreadable simply in my humble opinion; I meant that nobody on earth except the author could manage to read them. I'll have to think of some I've seen in my travels. I wasn't being snobby. I was being as literal as an anvil. :-)

Hitch