Are DRM infections dying out?

[BeccaPrice]

I suspect most perple are like my mother - they neither know nor care about DRM! And won't care until they get a new device and can't copy their books over, or the ebook retailer stops supporting that format or flavor of DRM. As long as the book "just works" there's no real reason to care. It's just those us who like to back up their books, or who want an extra level of portability, or who have a philosophical issue with Drm who are going to go through the extra steps to remove it,

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

No, it is not since there will be easy to use converters between formats.

But, as you know, with the appropriate tools, format conversion is no more difficult with DRM than without, and anyone with the technical skills to convert formats isn't going to be stopped by DRM.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But, as you know, with the appropriate tools, format conversion is no more difficult with DRM than without, and anyone with the technical skills to convert formats isn't going to be stopped by DRM.

That is not true. There are online format conversion sites that anybody can use. Finding information about how to use DRM removal is much harder. And potentially illegal.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by tompe

That is not true. There are online format conversion sites that anybody can use. Finding information about how to use DRM removal is much harder. And potentially illegal.

True, finding info on stripping DRM is harder than finding info on converting formats, but once the knowledge is in place, or someone sets it up for you, Harry is correct, the same process that does the conversion can transparently do the stripping, so the doing is no harder.
For some people, like my mother, both an online conversion site and a command line Python DRM script are both equally difficult to use: they are both impossible.
Legality wasn't at issue.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by avantman42

The first dictionary definition of evidence that I found was "Facts or observations presented in support of an assertion." That seems to fit what I quoted, so I believe it is evidence. Note that I'm not claiming it's proof, only evidence.

I guess I prefer a more scientific, or legal, standard to consider something to be evidence. You know, something other than "gut feeling."

[taustin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Split, yes, but certainly not evenly. In the UK, I'd guess that Amazon have a 90%+ market share.

A search at Google suggests otherwise:
https://www.google.com/search?q=eboo...iw=853&bih=588

Though that's not really definitive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-book#Market_shares

Says the US is about event split between Amazon and everybody else. Maybe the UK is that different, but honestly, you guess doesn't seem very convincing to me, when everything else suggests otherwise.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

I think of it as descriptive rather than "inflammatory".

I'm sure you do. And that's why I know not to take you seriously. If you were doing it on purpose, you might be convinced to stop. If you aren't aware of doing it, you cannot stop yourself. Ergo, you're not someone to take seriously. Or even bother reading the rest of.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

They don't need DRM for that. Having their own format is sufficient.

Is there some reason to believe that there can only be one reason?

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

To be clear: I hear that you are concerned, and I know there is a concern out there--but no one who has ever purchased books of mine has ever written and asked about DRM, asked where to buy DRM-Free versions, etc. When I have asked directly, VERY few people even know what it is. That is not to say I am unaware some readers care. My point was more that I think most readers are almost completely unaware of DRM and don't care about it.

Yeap, some don't care, because sometime they are not aware of it, or aware of the problem it can cause.
Until for some reason digital edition slaps then in face.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by taustin

I guess I prefer a more scientific, or legal, standard to consider something to be evidence. You know, something other than "gut feeling."

I think you're wrong to say it's gut feeling, because John Sargent's statement is based on actual sales data. He hasn't got enough data to be able to give a definite conclusion, so the conclusion may change, but nonetheless, he's basing his statement on actual data. To my mind, that means it's not a gut feeling.

This originally came up because you asked pdurrant if he had any evidence that removing DRM wouldn't reduce sales. He and I have given John Sargent's statement as evidence. Do you (or anyone else) have any evidence that removing DRM will reduce sales? I'd be genuinely interested to see evidence to support either side, since John Sargent's statement is the only evidence I've seen so far.

As a side note, since you mention a "legal standard" of evidence, I did jury duty once. The standard of evidence we were presented with was lower than this. It was, frankly, equivalent to two kids falling out and each blaming the other.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by taustin

Says the US is about event split between Amazon and everybody else. Maybe the UK is that different, but honestly, you guess doesn't seem very convincing to me, when everything else suggests otherwise.

It is different, the difference being that the US has a strong 2nd-place player: B&N. The UK doesn't - it's just Amazon and "small fry"; primarily Kobo.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is different, the difference being that the US has a strong 2nd-place player: B&N. The UK doesn't - it's just Amazon and "small fry"; primarily Kobo.

Kobo seams to have hugly won from the parnership with the Fnac in france.
They are not that far behind amazon, if not in the lead.

[fjtorres]

A Google search for ebook DRM removal will take you to the right place in the very first page. Repeatedly. So, yes, it is easy to learn how to strip DRM.

A simple look at the DL count at the primary distribution site reveals download counts in the tens-to-hundreds of thousands. By contrast, there are tens of millions of ebook readers, generating billions of dollars in ebook sales each year.

And, finally, looking at Amazon vs epub market share tells you nothing about who cares about DRM (and interoperability) in the US. What does tell you something is the aggregate market share of generic ADEPT ebokstores. Which is well under 10% and made up primarily of Kobo and Sony.

Look to other similar categories: Audiobooks? Dominated by Audible. Comics? Dominated by ComiXology. http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...ic-dollars-go/

The masses don't *care* about DRM.
(Only us hobbyists, techies, and crusaders.)

And that is with a strong migration of avid readers in the US to ebooks. With most US ebook growth in the near term to be driven by casual readers on iOS and other multipurpose devices the fraction of people who care about ebook DRM is going to be even lower.

As long as publishers and authors cling to their security blanket of DRM, nothing is going to change because the consumers simply don't care.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by avantman42

This originally came up because you asked pdurrant if he had any evidence that removing DRM wouldn't reduce sales. He and I have given John Sargent's statement as evidence. Do you (or anyone else) have any evidence that removing DRM will reduce sales? I'd be genuinely interested to see evidence to support either side, since John Sargent's statement is the only evidence I've seen so far.

Take a look at music downloads. They used to have DRM on purchased MP3s.

There was a study released recently in Europe that claimed that illegal downloads don't have much impact on sales. Here's a Forbes.com article.

These are difficult questions. Very complicated. I can say that the music industry is getting more money from me since the removal of DRM. If they brought back DRM, I'd never buy another MP3.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Fluribus

Take a look at music downloads. They used to have DRM on purchased MP3s.

And the only reason they *chose* to do away with DRM was they were tired of Apple's one-price-fits-all policy and wanted a counter to Apple's iTunes domination. So they went DRM free with Amazon to allow them to window prices; high at release, lower over time. They *wanted* discounting.

In ebooks, the BPHs (alleged) "fear of Amazon" drove them into a conspiracy with Apple to raise prices and stop discounting.

Sorry, but I don't see the parallel. I don't think selling three minute disposable-music singles has much to teach us about selling digital novels. For starters the demographics and consumption modes are totally different. To say nothing of the revenue streams for the two industries. (I don't think many authors are going to sell out stadiums for readings of their latest book.)