Amazon is talking out both sides of its [edited]

[Penforhire]

This thread is funny. I love the weird tangents we take off on.

I'm so epically (Biblically?) mad I'll strike you down with the jawbone of a (censored). Hmm, seem to have misplaced it. lol

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by screwballl

Really? So you use generalized comments to put me in a stereotypical group with others simply because I have a different ereader than you do?

No, I put you in that group because of what you said--you marginalized someone and mocked his choice of an e-reader, as though this is some elementary school playground.

Originally Posted by screwballl

1) I just got my Kindle

2) I haven't read more than 20 pages of a any given book on mine yet due to work and holiday stuff.

3) Looking at his profile info, he has one of the cheapest and worst made ereaders currently available based on all the reviews out there (most rate the Aluratek reader with 1 or 2 out of 5), how else can that be taken? Also considering the fact that they spelled the name of it wrong.
When he (or she) is commenting on a device which they know little to nothing about, especially spreading lies all over the place with 90% of their posts on this forum.

So you are an expert on both his device AND your new Kindle? Which you say you just got and you haven't read an entire book on yet? But you know your Kindle is superior, and I guess that somehow makes you superior for having chosen it?

And how is his profile relevant to anything?

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The simple test is "Is the word one you would use in front of a small child?" If it isn't, perhaps you shouldn't use it in a post on MR.

Do I understand correctly, then, that by "family-friendly" you actually mean "suitable for small children"?

Much of what is on MobileRead is not suitable for small children. For example, the silly discussion about zombies down in the chatbox would terrify many small children. The technical discussions in the calibre forum would confuse small children. And if I were to say "Santa Claus is really your dad" ... well, let's not go there.

"Suitable for small children" might be a good standard for the My Little Pony forums, but it probably isn't such a good standard for a forum meant for adults. And this forum is meant for adults, or else discussions of zombies, calibre's innards, and the reality of that dude with the red suit would all be censored.

And where does it stop? There comes a point where "suitable for the most prudish person's smallest child" leaves very little left. There are, in fact, people who have objected -- and objected strongly -- to My Little Pony, as it's against their religion to have animals talk. Is that where we want to go?

Not swearing like sailors is a good thing, as it keeps the discussion civil, and civility encourages further discussion. But requiring everything in this forum to be suitable for small children is not a good thing -- not in any forum that is not, in fact, intended for small children.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by screwballl

I am a long time computer tech, OFF is OFF, regardless if it is software, hardware or a robot. Many computers use a software based power system, where there is still a tiny trace of power still being drawn even when the computer is off, yet there is no technical way for a hacker to connect to this computer and force it to turn on. unplug the power cord from the computer and press the power button, that uses that trace amount of power still in the system to attempt to turn it on, yet the lack of power prevents it from happening. Thats why there is usually a little flicker of the power light for half a second.

If your wifi/3G is OFF, there is NO communication in or out. Therefore it is literally impossible for them to turn it on for any reason from their side. Just as it is impossible for the Kindle itself to turn the wifi/3G on automatically since your selection of turning it OFF tells the device the connection is not available. Doesn't matter if the Kindle is turned off, in sleep mode or in use. OFF IS OFF

Unfortunately the Nook DOES auto connect for library and firmware updates, and turn the wifi/3G on and then off, unless it is set in airplane mode.

If the Nook can turn Wifi on and off, what makes it impossible for the Kindle to do the same? And if the Kindle can't do it, how do you explain the people who have had their firmware upgraded with Wifi switched off?

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

How would a Kindle receive a signal to turn on the wifi or 3g if the wifi is off? Are Kindles telepathic?

Simple: "off" does not, in fact, mean "off"; it means "not accessible to the user." It's not a physical switch; it's a software setting. And what software can set, software can un-set. It's like setting a file to "hidden" under Windows: the file is still there, and any program that wants to access it can do so, but you don't see it when you look. So, for example, the Kindle software might be set to check once a day to see if there's anything Amazon wants to update. It would turn itself on, check its network, and turn back off, without turning the screen on or reporting anything. Without a physical way of disabling that capability (perhaps making a Kindle-shaped tinfoil hat?) there is no way for the user to ensure that "off" really means "not available to the Kindle no matter how hard it tries."

Take my Wii as an example. It has an "on/off" switch, but that's really an "active/standby" switch. When it's nominally "off", so long as it has power anyway, it will periodically check to see if Nintendo wants to patch it, and flicker its little blue light if there's a patch waiting. That's the same kind of "off" that a network-capable ebook reader has.

Our ebook readers, by the way, are rarely actually "off". They go into sleep mode, but they're still awake down there, waiting for us to read them. Push the "on" button and the screen starts up instantly -- no fifteen minutes of boot sequence and library indexing. That's because it was never actually turned off in the first place. It was just in low-power mode, and if its software wants to reach out and touch someone, it can do so. Well, not mine, since mine doesn't have the hardware capability, but one that does have it.

Also, Amazon has gone into people's Kindles and taken books away from them. That's what the whole "1984" brouhaha was about (and what a book to do it with). They not only have the capability, they have demonstrated it.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

How would a Kindle receive a signal to turn on the wifi or 3g if the wifi is off? Are Kindles telepathic?

Why would it need a signal to switch it on, look for updates, upload all the logs, then switch off again? All that stuff could be easily written into the firmware to do it automatically at regular intervals, or at switch on/just before switch off, while it's in standby.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by screwballl

incest = family relation of any kind, biological or not. This goes for adopted family members, step-siblings or family by marriage (even step-cousins) are all off limits. there is no other way to twist it. Just because nature may not have problems, doesn't make it right.

I suppose you can define "incest" any way you want. But the *legal* definition in my state only applies to biological relationships.

And including step and relationships-by-marriage can be really complicated. Although knowing where to draw the line in biological relationships is complicated, too. 2d cousins? 3d cousins? 6th cousins?

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

"Suitable for small children" might be a good standard for the My Little Pony forums, but it probably isn't such a good standard for a forum meant for adults. And this forum is meant for adults, or else discussions of zombies, calibre's innards, and the reality of that dude with the red suit would all be censored.

I could not agree more. To insist that a forum be dumbed down to the level of "suitable for toddlers" is insulting to every adult that reads this site. There is nothing wrong with assuming that a site about technical issues about consumer electronics and discussion of books will be read almost exclusively by people old enough to care about/understand consumer electronics and books to have heard a couple of "naughty" words before. As much as I love this forum, that stance is the most disappointing and embarrassing aspect of it. Almost every site I visit treats adults like they are adults.

A while back, I had a thread in the politics forum where the most popular, mainstream term for non-supporters of the US Tea Party was used. Later on, someone made a comment about "never being too old to learn about new sex terms", having never heard that tea-related term before (which even now I'm having to be careful not to say) and I made a joke about that being not nearly as bad as the new X and Y political movements, with X and Y being the slang terms for two commonly joked about on internet forums apocryphal sex acts. For that, the title of the thread was changed and every post that had the horrible, horrible tea-related word deleted. The thread was locked soon after that. And that was in the "walled garden", opt-in area for discussing politics and religion-- even that area is supposed to be kept toddler-friendly!

Maybe there should be another secret opt-in area where adults are able to discuss adult (not pornographic!) topics and be treated like adults.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

And if the Kindle can't do it, how do you explain the people who have had their firmware upgraded with Wifi switched off?

I've not heard of these people.
I'm not taking a stance in the Off=Off debate, but this is the first I've ever heard of someone receiving an automatic update with their Wifi turned off. I think I doubt the veracity of such a claim.

NOTE: I'm not claiming you are lying, but rather, the people who say it happened to them.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I've not heard of these people.
I'm not taking a stance in the Off=Off debate, but this is the first I've ever heard of someone receiving an automatic update with their Wifi turned off. I think I doubt the veracity of such a claim.

NOTE: I'm not claiming you are lying, but rather, the people who say it happened to them.

How often do they issue updates? Maybe it is something we could experiment with for the next update.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Do I understand correctly, then, that by "family-friendly" you actually mean "suitable for small children"?

Closer to "Suitable for parents with children who might get concerned by what their kids see."

I'm simply explaining the reasoning involved. As it happens, I largely agree with you.

And if the kid is old enough to read and comprehend the thread, I strongly suspect he/she already knows the bad words, and is simply smart enough not to use them where Mom and Dad will hear.

But I'm not the mod who originally edited the post, and didn't see it till after it was done. If I had, I would have said "Leave it alone".
______
Dennis

[poohbear_nc]

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