Nook 1.5 or Kindle 3?

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by FF2

Just zeroed in on this statement. If it is not plain ascii, it is a proprietary standard. epub drm is just as proprietary as any kindle standard. And epub needs a special reader, whether on an iphone, ipad, pc, mac, or blackberry. You need a reader for it.

I thought the context of my posts made it clear but since you are being a purist, I am referring to the Amazon decision to not license AZW to anyone. I am assuming you are already aware of the EPUB - IDPF link.

[basschick]

you can buy non-proprietary ebooks that you can read on the kindle without converting them at smashwords, which i wouldn't consider niche, and also at baen. i'm sure there are others. you can also get ebooks for both at project gutenberg - see, there's both nook and epub here
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/28931

not sure why so many people are so convinced that you can't read any formats in the kindle without converting. you can read non-drm mobi, prc and text files without intervention.

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by jocampo

@Kitabi,

You know what? I give up with you

Yeah well, I was about to say the same to you but you beat me to it.

You are trying to impose or think that the alternatives Kindle users have for buying their books is a Niche, that is 100% your opinion, that is what you feel and not the opinion of other Kindle users.

I posted a very valid test for you. Take the top 20 bestseller test and see for yourself.

You were questioning and said, we can't read from other stores, that's simply untrue. We can, I can, all Kindle users can read and download from other stores without breaking any DRM protection.

I DID NOT say that and I wouldn't. I KNOW Kindle users can download MOBI formatted books from other stores. Unfortunately, these are niche stores and so Amazon has no real competition. Again, refer to the top 20 test.

You want to make people think that if your book is not ePub format you are stuck.

As things stand now, that happens to be the truth unless you are willing and able to convert formats. Not everyone is.

The main issue here is about the DRM protection. Even if I was a B&N user and buy a book from Amazon, without DRM I could convert to ePub.

Only partly. As a consumer I should not have to convert formats. If publishers sold a time and format guarantee (i.e. they sell me a book which is guaranteed to be readable on any device for a particular time) I would be very happy.

So your argument is basically based on the preference and likeness for ePub format, B&N store and public libraries. That is what you like.

Other than the library borrowing, the answer is no. I am not beholden to a format or a store. I have said on multiple threads including this one that I would buy a Kindle if Amazon forms a consortium to license and develop AZW.

There are other folks like me, who don't need anything from those stores. I actually sold my Nook because I was not able to download or get computer content from any place but Amazon; O' Reilly is the other good place and they sell their books in MOBI format. I have tons of books on my Kindle DXG from O'Reilly.

And I have no problems with such users. As long as you make an informed choice, I respect it. However, if you try to point to workarounds and say Amazon and Kindle are not restrictive, I would point out it is not so.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

As long as you make an informed choice, I respect it. However, if you try to point to workarounds and say Amazon and Kindle are not restrictive, I would point out it is not so.

Opinion! Not a fact, I showed you the reasons why it's not true.

Let's wait and see what is going to happen with azw or ePub in about 5 years. I can tell you since now that whatever the market is now buying or will keep buying, will dictate what format with survive or not, regardless of the company or reader.

Enjoy your device and keep reading!

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

The double standard charge belongs elsewhere if you read the thread carefully. I count both as "future developments for those interested and patient enough".

Ah, yes, you said that with a winky. I missed that.

I posted a very valid test for you. Take the top 20 bestseller test and see for yourself.

Maybe valid if you assume that everybody is only interested in best sellers, which not everyone is. If that's the market you are talking about, it would be more honest to qualify your claims accordingly.

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by ApK

Maybe valid if you assume that everybody is only interested in best sellers, which not everyone is. If that's the market you are talking about, it would be more honest to qualify your claims accordingly.

With all due respect, it is customary to point out exceptions not the rule. The people who are claiming that they can buy MOBI formatted books from Baen or Smashwords or O'Reilly should be the ones qualifying their claims saying they are talking about science fiction sellers or independents or technical book sellers.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by basschick

you can buy non-proprietary ebooks that you can read on the kindle without converting them at smashwords, which i wouldn't consider niche, and also at baen. i'm sure there are others. you can also get ebooks for both at project gutenberg - see, there's both nook and epub here
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/28931

not sure why so many people are so convinced that you can't read any formats in the kindle without converting. you can read non-drm mobi, prc and text files without intervention.

oh egads no one is talking about out of copyright books that anyone and their mother can download.

We're talking about books that are copyrighted in with today publishers. The kindle is very limited, VERY limited options as opposed to the rest of us.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by boswd

We're talking about books that are copyrighted in with today publishers. The kindle is very limited, VERY limited options as opposed to the rest of us.

VERY Limited options? More limited options on WHERE to buy them, without stripping DRM and converting, yes. But it seems awfully likely that MOST Kindle users who want those books will never notice or care because Amazon has everything they'll ever want at competitive prices (really cool Kobo coupons aside.)

And just curious about the "very" limited thing...how many general-audience mass market ebook stores ARE there, in total?

ApK

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

With all due respect, it is customary to point out exceptions not the rule. The people who are claiming that they can buy MOBI formatted books from Baen or Smashwords or O'Reilly should be the ones qualifying their claims saying they are talking about science fiction sellers or independents or technical book sellers.

Perhaps, but they have the defense they they are making true statements.

Those who say the Kindle users can only buy from Amazon are making a false statement.

It would probably help eliminate a lot of forum clutter if that latter group just spoke the truth to begin with.

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by ApK

Perhaps, but they have the defense they they are making true statements.

Those who say the Kindle users can only buy from Amazon are making a false statement.

It would probably help eliminate a lot of forum clutter if that latter group just spoke the truth to begin with.

And you are bringing this up this point with me because?

I can quite easily claim that the forum clutter is courtesy of Kindle fanatics who despite knowing they are talking about niche book stores keep insisting they can download "any books" "from elsewhere". Not quite the hallmark of truth.

But hey, calling somebody a liar (NOT "making true statements?") does not help anybody, does it?

[boswd]

Originally Posted by ApK

VERY Limited options? More limited options on WHERE to buy them, without stripping DRM and converting, yes. But it seems awfully likely that MOST Kindle users who want those books will never notice or care because Amazon has everything they'll ever want at competitive prices (really cool Kobo coupons aside.)

And just curious about the "very" limited thing...how many general-audience mass market ebook stores ARE there, in total?

ApK

lets see kobo, sony, borders(though im not sure if it's different than kobo's regular store), Google. I mean that's 4 off the top of my head and the kobo and the borders offer like you say great coupons and membership rewards and such.

My wife belongs to kobo and she's been getting the 30% coupons lateley. That just plain rocks.

Yeah take that Amazon's beliefs

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

And you are bringing this up this point with me because?

I can quite easily claim that the forum clutter is courtesy of Kindle fanatics who despite knowing they are talking about niche book stores keep insisting they can download "any books" "from elsewhere". Not quite the hallmark of truth.

But hey, calling anybody a liar (NOT "making true statements?") does not help anybody, does it?

Actually yes, calling a liar a liar very often helps everybody interested in accurate information. But I didn't call anyone a liar in that post. A false statement need not only mean a lie. It can be the result of misinformation, ignorance, or misspeaking.

I'd gather that most of the people who have said that the Kindle can only buy from Amazon (and there have been more than one) REALLY meant that, without going outside authorized channels and methods, the Kindle can buy from one of the handful of large general-audience, mass market DRM eBook stores, and not the several others, and this can limit comparison shopping and buying options for those books compared to ePub/ADE supporting devices.

That's true.

[ProfCrash]

Deep breath folks.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Deep breath folks.

who would ever think that kindle vs Nook would become the mac vs PC in the ereader world

[FF2]

Originally Posted by boswd

who would ever think that kindle vs Nook would become the mac vs PC in the ereader world

Me, Me!!!! (waves hand holding kindle furiously)...