Other founders of the "Golden Age" of Sicience Fiction

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

For those who have not read any of Van Vogt, I can recommend:

The Monster
The Village
The Sound
Dear Pen Pal\

I suggest "The Beast" and "The Voyage of the Space Ship Beagle". The thing about his books is they're all so very different. There are a few that fall into a group but the majority are all as different from each other as they are from everyone else's books. He was a pretty good writer but he certainly had one of the wildest imaginations I've ever encountered.

By the way, there's one other author who might be worth discussing in this thread and that's Robert L Forward and his book "Dragon's Egg". This is absolutely hard science fiction, as much as any book could ever be, and yet it takes place in a setting that seems impossible to have anything happen, on the surface of a neutron star with gravity 67 billion times as great as on Earth. Stuff happens though. Stuff really happens.

He wrote shortly after the golden age of sf and I really don't know much about him other than that one book. It's a book that's hard to forget.

Barry


Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

I would argue that David Weber and his Honor Harrington are too late to be considered Golden Age, unless you like the old joke, "What's the Golden Age of Science Fiction?"

Spoiler:

13.

I hadn't heard that joke and that's just about when I started reading SF. I read a book called "Bridge of Light" when I was about 13 and I still think about scenes in that book. I don't really remember the story, just some of the scenes. I've tried to find reference to it since then but I've been unable to. The title has been used so many times since then it makes searching impossible and I have no memory of the author's name.

Anyway that book got me looking for others like it and that's how I found out about SF. Keep in mind that SF in those days wasn't something nice people would talk about.

Barry

[crich70]

Originally Posted by barryem

I suggest "The Beast" and "The Voyage of the Space Ship Beagle". The thing about his books is they're all so very different. There are a few that fall into a group but the majority are all as different from each other as they are from everyone else's books. He was a pretty good writer but he certainly had one of the wildest imaginations I've ever encountered.

By the way, there's one other author who might be worth discussing in this thread and that's Robert L Forward and his book "Dragon's Egg". This is absolutely hard science fiction, as much as any book could ever be, and yet it takes place in a setting that seems impossible to have anything happen, on the surface of a neutron star with gravity 67 billion times as great as on Earth. Stuff happens though. Stuff really happens.

He wrote shortly after the golden age of sf and I really don't know much about him other than that one book. It's a book that's hard to forget.

Barry


Barry

He also wrote a sequel to "Dragon's Egg" titled "Star Quake" which chronicles the future history of the beings on the neutron star after the humans leave.

John Wood Campbell Jr. (June 8, 1910 – July 11, 1971) was an American science fiction writer and editor. As editor of Astounding Science Fiction (later called Analog Science Fiction and Fact) from late 1937 until his death, he is generally credited with shaping the Golden Age of Science Fiction.
Isaac Asimov called Campbell "the most powerful force in science fiction ever, and for the first ten years of his editorship he dominated the field completely.

John W. Campbell

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by barryem

I hadn't heard that joke and that's just about when I started reading SF.

I had heard it before, and yes, it was for me as well, perhaps a tad earlier; I cut my teeth on the Tom Swift books, and they were <12 in our library IIRC. And the Tripods trilogy by John Christopher. In Dutch translation back then, of course.

Speaking about Tom Swift, I found out yesterday that the Taser, when invented, was originally called TSER, short for 'Tom Swifts Electric Rifle' (the inventor clearly saw the similarities)

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by GibbinR

Just occurred to me that Jack Vance (born 1916) is also a Golden Age writer. ... but as with James Blish he seems just as important and influential an SF writer as the Big 3 to me.

Yup. Vance was very popular in the Netherlands for some reason, far more so than he ever was in the US. Same with A.E. van Vogt. They were well-known in the US, but here in the Netherlands they were probably the most popular SF writers of all, bigger than the Big Three.

They were my first 'real' SF writers (after the Tom Swift books and juveniles like that).

[shalym]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Where/what would Honor Harrington be without her genetically-engineered ancestors, treecat, and medically-enhanced lifespan? To say nothing of the starships. Or her emerging telepathic abilities...

A Napoleonic war *female* ship captain?
That would be fantasy.

If you want to challenge the definition, try something a bit more ambiguous...

Napoleonic would be fantasy, maybe, but 21st century wouldn't be.

The story is about the journey, and the battles, and Honor's life, not about the technology.

Anyway, as someone else said, Weber isn't classic.

Sorry for bringing this thread off topic.


Shari

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by shalym

...and I completely disagree with that "accepted guideline".

Don't worry. Many people disagree with it. Most of them just quickly tire of arguing with people who are more concerned with the definitions of labels than they are with the works to which those labels get affixed.

The only people who acknowledge any such "accepted guideline" are those who are willing to dismiss out of hand, any opinions that don't jive with their personal nostalgic notions about what is, and isn't, SF. It's pointless navel gazing for the most part.

Every author/reader's opinion about what should be labeled science fiction is correct. It's the opinions about what shouldn't be called SF that are primarily hogwash.

[Alpha o]

I'd think that if someone was published in one of the good anthologies in the 50s and 60s, they are Golden Age and classic. Their later works might be great or stink, but they met that requirement.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Alpha o

I'd think that if someone was published in one of the good anthologies in the 50s and 60s, they are Golden Age and classic. Their later works might be great or stink, but they met that requirement.

The Golden Age has usually been described as running from Campbell's rise as editor at Astounding to the name change to Analog. Which happened just as the New Wave of SF was taking hold and Campbell's influence fading.

So yes, any writer published within 1938-1960 falls within the Golden Age.
There's still a couple active that fit the designation.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Alpha o

I'd think that if someone was published in one of the good anthologies in the 50s and 60s, they are Golden Age and classic. Their later works might be great or stink, but they met that requirement.

Yes, if it was in Adventures in Time and Space, the author is part of the golden age.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

...
So yes, any writer published within 1938-1960 falls within the Golden Age.
There's still a couple active that fit the designation.

I agree, but...

... simply being published during that period doesn't qualify you for being one of the "founders of the 'Golden Age' of Science Fiction", the proposed topic of this thread.

Many writers got their start during the Golden Age, but didn't write any really great works during the period, despite later maturing into one of the major authors of SF (whether Science Fiction or the more broadly defined Speculative Fiction). John Brunner, mentioned earlier, would, in my mind, be one such example.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Yes, if it was in Adventures in Time and Space, the author is part of the golden age.

We (this thread) ought to assemble a second anthology of shorter works, from 1946 to 1956, as a conceptual sequel to Adventures in Time and Space - say 30 stories.

Here are some suggestions:

Theodore Sturgeon - Thunder and Roses
L Sprague DeCamp - A Gun For Dinosaur
Robert A Heinlein - The Green Hills of Earth
Cordwainer Smith - The Game of Rat and Dragon
Fritz Leiber - A Pail of Air
Arthur C Clarke - The Nine Billion Names of God
C M Kornbluth - The Little Black Bag
A E Van Vogt - Dear Pen Pal
Isaac Asimov - It's Such A Beautiful Day
Tom Godwin - The Cold Equations

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Yes, if it was in Adventures in Time and Space, the author is part of the golden age.

We (this thread) ought to assemble a second anthology of shorter works, from 1946 to 1956, as a conceptual sequel to Adventures in Time and Space - say 30 stories.

Here are some suggestions:

Theodore Sturgeon - Thunder and Roses
L Sprague DeCamp - A Gun For Dinosaur
Robert A Heinlein - The Green Hills of Earth
Cordwainer Smith - The Game of Rat and Dragon
Fritz Leiber - A Pail of Air
Arthur C Clarke - The Nine Billion Names of God
C M Kornbluth - The Little Black Bag
A E Van Vogt - Dear Pen Pal
Isaac Asimov - It's Such A Beautiful Day
Tom Godwin - The Cold Equations

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

We (this thread) ought to assemble a second anthology of shorter works, from 1946 to 1956, as a conceptual sequel to Adventures in Time and Space - say 30 stories.

Here are some suggestions:

Theodore Sturgeon - Thunder and Roses
L Sprague DeCamp - A Gun For Dinosaur
Robert A Heinlein - The Green Hills of Earth
Cordwainer Smith - The Game of Rat and Dragon
Fritz Leiber - A Pail of Air
Arthur C Clarke - The Nine Billion Names of God
C M Kornbluth - The Little Black Bag
A E Van Vogt - Dear Pen Pal
Isaac Asimov - It's Such A Beautiful Day
Tom Godwin - The Cold Equations

Not a bad idea. Agreed on all.

There's also these, from Anthony Boucher two volume set:

https://www.amazon.com/Treasury-Grea.../dp/B00005X06U

Two volumes, 4 full novels, and a big assortment of novellas, noveletes, and shorts. All great.

Spoiler:

Re-Birth by John Wyndham (novel).
The Shape of Things That Came by Richard Deming.
Pillar of Fire by Ray Bradbury.
Waldo by Robert A. Heinlein.
The Father-Thing by Philip K. Dick.
The Children's Hour by Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore.
Gomez by C. M. Kornbluth.
The [Widget], The [Wadget], and Boff by Theodore Sturgeon.
Sandra by George P. Elliott.
Beyond Space and Time by Joel Townsley Rogers.
The Martian Crown Jewels by Poul Anderson.
The Weapon Shops of Isher by A. E. van Vogt (novel).

Spoiler:

Brain Wave: Poul Anderson (novel)
Bullard Reflects: Malcolm Jameson
The Lost Years: Oscar Lewis
Dead Center: Judith Merril
Lost Art: George O. Smith
The Other Side of the Sky: Arthur C. Clarke
The Man Who Sold the Moon: Robert A. Heinlein
Magic City: Nelson S. Bond
The Morning of the Day They Did It: E. B. White
Letters from Laura: Mildred Clingerman
The Stars My Destination: Alfred Bester (novel)

The ones he missed :

https://www.amazon.com/Science-Ficti.../dp/0765305372

Spoiler:

· A Martian Odyssey [Tweel] · Stanley G. Weinbaum
· Twilight [as by Don A. Stuart; Dying Earth] · John W. Campbell, Jr.
· Helen O’Loy · Lester del Rey
· The Roads Must Roll · Robert A. Heinlein
· Microcosmic God · Theodore Sturgeon
· Nightfall · Isaac Asimov
· The Weapon Shop [Isher] · A. E. van Vogt
· Mimsy Were the Borogoves · Lewis Padgett
· Huddling Place [City (Websters)] · Clifford Simak
· Arena · Fredric Brown
· First Contact · Murray Leinster
· That Only a Mother · Judith Merril
· Scanners Live in Vain · Cordwainer Smith
· Mars Is Heaven! · Ray Bradbury
· The Little Black Bag · C. M. Kornbluth
· Born of Man and Woman · Richard Matheson
· Coming Attraction · Fritz Leiber
· The Quest for Saint Aquin · Anthony Boucher
· Surface Tension [Lavon] · James Blish
· The Nine Billion Names of God · Arthur C. Clarke
· It’s a Good Life · Jerome Bixby
· The Cold Equations · Tom Godwin
· Fondly Fahrenheit · Alfred Bester
· The Country of the Kind · Damon Knight
· Flowers for Algernon · Daniel Keyes
· A Rose for Ecclesiastes · Roger Zelazny

For those interested in deeper roots of the genre:

https://www.amazon.com/Before-Golden...e+isaac+asimov

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by meeera

I'm not going to argue that "the science/engineering/SFnal setting is essential to the plot" is the definition of "real SF", but I could maybe make an argument that it's the definition of "hard SF".

Generally, "hard" science fiction means the author has attempted to work out the "rules" of the science developments and explain them with as little hand-waving and technobabble as possible.

So, "discovered a new element that enables faster than light travel" == "soft" (or maybe even fantasy), while "discovered a new element that is more stable than other transuranic elements and allows this previously impossible chemical process" == "hard".