Other founders of the "Golden Age" of Sicience Fiction

[fjtorres]

About vanVogt: this came down recently

https://qz.com/984924/the-best-books...iness-leaders/

It struck me as odd that WEAPON SHOPS OF ISHER, with its decidedly anti-government slant and Second Amendment premise should be paired with 1984 for that drill.
Made me reread it and it stood up to my memories.

I'm currently doing WEAPON MAKERS OF ISHER and he does adhere to the 800 word cadence. Considering it is a far future society it is marginally easier to keep up than a novel set in present times. He keeps rolling out the ideas like clockwork...

Next I there I think I'll dig up SLAN and THE SILKIE. Plus THE HOUSE THAT STOOD STILL.

The thing about VanVogt is I can't think of any direct followers of his m.o.
His stories are enduring but I think that, like Sturgeon, nobody dares follow where he went.

[hildea]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

In the romance field there is an entire subgenre dedicated to stories set in SF (and fantasy) settings; future cities, spaceships, lost colonies, whatever. The stories are correctly flagged as paranormal romance because the story is about the relationships, not the SF elements.

The same applies to mysteries in SF settings.
Crossovers can happen but they are rare. And hard to really pull off.

I would say that these kinds of books are both SF and (paranormal) romance, or both SF and mysteries. Just like a book can be both a mystery and a historical novel, or both a romance and a historical novel. A book can belong to several genres.

"No artificial shortages!" to quote a character in a SF/romance/comedy of errors book by one of my favourite authors :-)

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Indeed.

The generally accepted guideline is that if the scientific/technological element is removed and the story falls apart, it is Science Fiction. If the SF elements are removed and the core story survives then they are just props, decoration, or a setting and it isn't SF.

In the romance field there is an entire subgenre dedicated to stories set in SF (and fantasy) settings; future cities, spaceships, lost colonies, whatever. The stories are correctly flagged as paranormal romance because the story is about the relationships, not the SF elements.

The same applies to mysteries in SF settings.
Crossovers can happen but they are rare. And hard to really pull off.

There is no generally accepted guideline. There is only various peoples personal preferences/prejudices. In quite a few of Heinlein's stories, the scientific/technical aspects are purely window dressing. In others, it's central to the story. Does that mean that only a few of Heinlein's stories count as "Real SF"? I certainly don't think so.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

There is no generally accepted guideline. There is only various peoples personal preferences/prejudices. In quite a few of Heinlein's stories, the scientific/technical aspects are purely window dressing. In others, it's central to the story. Does that mean that only a few of Heinlein's stories count as "Real SF"? I certainly don't think so.

I'm not going to argue that "the science/engineering/SFnal setting is essential to the plot" is the definition of "real SF", but I could maybe make an argument that it's the definition of "hard SF". All the categories are extremely fuzzy-edged, however. Unlike some people who play with hard/soft SF definitions, however, I include social sciences in "science". Embassytown and Story of Your Life are hard SF, based in linguistics, for example.

[GibbinR]

Don't think anyone has mentioned James Blish (born 1921) yet.
He wrote at least two wonderful sets of novels:
- Cities in Flight
- After Such Knowledge
and many other lesser ones.
As a British teenager growing up in the mid-sixties, he was a bigger figure to me than any of the big three.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by GibbinR

Don't think anyone has mentioned James Blish (born 1921) yet.
He wrote at least two wonderful sets of novels:
- Cities in Flight
- After Such Knowledge
and many other lesser ones.
As a British teenager growing up in the mid-sixties, he was a bigger figure to me than any of the big three.

Blish was my first buy.
VOR.

A CASE OF CONSCIENCE is in many ways the quintessential SF story. A simple idea with deep consequences. A jesuit priest sent to meet the first sentient aliens discovered to determine if they have souls.

I'm particularly fond of his JACK OF EAGLES and QUINCUNX of time.

SF is the literature of ideas and Blish went for *big* ideas.

[Greg Anos]

Not to mention Surface Tension.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by GibbinR

Don't think anyone has mentioned James Blish (born 1921) yet.
He wrote at least two wonderful sets of novels:
- Cities in Flight
- After Such Knowledge
and many other lesser ones.
As a British teenager growing up in the mid-sixties, he was a bigger figure to me than any of the big three.

Nor have the mentioned John Brunner. My tagline here comes from The Shockwave Rider

[fjtorres]

James H. Schmitz: Witches of Karres. Federation of the Hub series - Telzey Amberdon and Trigger Argee. He even teamed them up.

In those days, SF was for thought *and* fun.

F. M. Busby: RISSA KERGUELEN, ALL THESE EARTHS, TO CAGE A MAN

A bit late to be a founder but sadly underappreciated.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Nor have the mentioned John Brunner. My tagline here comes from The Shockwave Rider

Another of the group of writers from the 60's. My favorite of his was the Traveler in Black stories. For some reason, I tend to associate him with Alfred Bester's The Stars My Destination, possibly because I discovered the two books around the same time (Bester wrote about a decade earlier). Bester also wrote The Demolished Man. The Stars My Destination is one of emy all time favorite books. Like a lot of SF at the time, he focused more on pseudo science such as mind reading and teleportation rather than anything we would consider science.

[GibbinR]

Just occurred to me that Jack Vance (born 1916) is also a Golden Age writer. He started in the forties, Big Planet was first published in 1952, to be followed by many, many others, including the Demon Princes novels, the Durdane trilogy, the Cadwal Chronicles, the Planet of Adventure quartet, the Alastor Cluster novels etc. The thing is that unlike many others, Vance lived to a ripe old age (96 from memory) and kept on writing great novels (eg Night Lamp published in 1996) well into old age.
I was a bit late discovering him (probably early 1970s before I read Star King) but as with James Blish he seems just as important and influential an SF writer as the Big 3 to me.

[fjtorres]

Jack Williamson.
Humanoids, SeeTee series, Legion of Space.
Darker than you think.
Oldest Nebula Winner.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Indeed.

The generally accepted guideline is that if the scientific/technological element is removed and the story falls apart, it is Science Fiction. If the SF elements are removed and the core story survives then they are just props, decoration, or a setting and it isn't SF.

In the romance field there is an entire subgenre dedicated to stories set in SF (and fantasy) settings; future cities, spaceships, lost colonies, whatever. The stories are correctly flagged as paranormal romance because the story is about the relationships, not the SF elements.

The same applies to mysteries in SF settings.
Crossovers can happen but they are rare. And hard to really pull off.

...and I completely disagree with that "accepted guideline". Could Honor Harrington exist without the scientific/technological part of it? Absolutely! Or maybe Honor Harrington isn't actually science fiction?

Shari

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by shalym

...and I completely disagree with that "accepted guideline". Could Honor Harrington exist without the scientific/technological part of it? Absolutely! Or maybe Honor Harrington isn't actually science fiction?

Shari

Where/what would Honor Harrington be without her genetically-engineered ancestors, treecat, and medically-enhanced lifespan? To say nothing of the starships. Or her emerging telepathic abilities...

A Napoleonic war *female* ship captain?
That would be fantasy.

If you want to challenge the definition, try something a bit more ambiguous...

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by shalym

...and I completely disagree with that "accepted guideline". Could Honor Harrington exist without the scientific/technological part of it? Absolutely! Or maybe Honor Harrington isn't actually science fiction?

Shari

I would argue that David Weber and his Honor Harrington are too late to be considered Golden Age, unless you like the old joke, "What's the Golden Age of Science Fiction?"

Spoiler:

13.