Harry Potter sequel ...as a stage play

[DiapDealer]

I'd certainly see it if it was near by. Sounds like fun.

[library addict]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Just bought tickets for the stage play for March 2017. Really looking forward to it!

Cool. Have fun.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Of course they are not there in the book. Makes it more scary. Or at least that may be the reasoning behind it. Just like monsters under the bed. In a children's book you just make up stuff without having to actually show how scary they potentially are. Hope the imagination of kids creates enough fear. As adult I read "monsters under the bed" and I am thinking "wow, how soon is someone going to stick an arm under the bed."

That is not a valid explanation for their existence in the cave.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm sure that most of such pronouncements are in response to comments that she's received, even if we don't see those comments. It's pretty unlikely that it comes out of thin air. For example, Lupin's death has been complained about ever since book 7 came out. Rowling explained why she did it, not long after the book came out, as well as the rational for owl's death.

[...]

What would you prefer her to do, be like Ellison and say screw you if you disagree with me? Author interactions with fans can be difficult. I'm sure that most authors are thinking "get a life" when they run into a fan who is that obsessed, but they can't really say it and still sell books.

Yes, I really would rather she just say "the people who died, died for plot-relevant reasons so stop complaining". Ever since the invention of fiction, people have been complaining that their favorite characters had to be the ones who died, and it was always pathetic.
To the point where GRRM's habit of deliberately killing the major/favorite characters comes as a relief, because he's set up a situation where no one dares complain! (Both for fear of being laughed at, and for fear of who he will kill in revenge.)

There is plenty of space in between "screw you" and "let me agonize over it with you in an incredibly pathetic, irritating manner".

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

That is not a valid explanation for their existence in the cave.

You were complaining that they were not really all that strong - and that they didn't show up elsewhere. Or are you saying they should have been left out completely?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You were complaining that they were not really all that strong - and that they didn't show up elsewhere. Or are you saying they should have been left out completely?

Wait, what????

I was complaining that they really are all that strong -- and that therefore an effective Dark Lord would have used them a lot more often.

(I suppose that is my answer. No one has ever accused Voldemort of being a sensible person. I guess he forgot about his army of Inferi for the same reason he arranged that ridiculously over-contrived scheme with the TriWizard Tournament -- two-way portkey and all. I blame Bahl's Stupefaction, and wonder how canon!Voldemort got poisoned.)

[issybird]

More coverage of the play in today's NYT.

[ProfCrash]

I will be interested to see what they do with the play. I am not sure why she went the play route but what the heck, it is a new medium for her to mess around with and when you have billions of dollars, well, why not?

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Random people are gay!

...

Somewhat tangential to this, I've been reading a bit of Harry Potter fanfiction recently, and the only thing more alarming than Dumbledore's tendency to be evil is the fact that, when reconsidering the books, it actually makes a fair bit of sense.

I have been sucked into the fan fiction, some of it is quite good. I actually like that most of the really good fan fiction pretty much calls out Harry as an abused kid who is manipulated by Dumbledore and that Snape is not as much of an ass as he is in the books. I get that the books are meant for kids/early teens but she really needed to either make Harry the less well liked and poorly treated second kid and less of a it is obvious that he is abused kid but everyone in the world is going to ignore that fact.

I tend to find all the people who write Harry as gay and pair him up with Malfoy far more disturbing then the Dumbledore depictions. I can see where they are coming from with Dumbledore, because, really, Harry is such a massive pawn being used by Dumbledore you can see how fans would interpret him as borderline evil.

But the Draco and Harry pairings and the Harry and Snape pairings are really weird. And the Snape as Harry's father are even more of a stretch, although there have been some interesting takes on that...

[eschwartz]

There's an old saying about trying to idiotproof things -- they always manage to invent better idiots.

Draco/Harry or Snape/Harry pairings are simply painful in an "I will gouge out my eyeballs now" sort of way. It isn't worthy of rising to the level of something that disturbs me.
I only read the stuff that displays basic competence in grammar and plot coherence. That rules out the vast majority of weirdly-demented love scenes.


So yeah. Evil Dumbledore is alarming because it appears in writing that is worth touching with a ten-foot-pole to begin with -- and because it makes a fair bit of sense.

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

So yeah. Evil Dumbledore is alarming because it appears in writing that is worth touching with a ten-foot-pole to begin with -- and because it makes a fair bit of sense.

I always saw Dumbledore as having a pragmatic streak a mile wide. Doing what must be done, and all that. But pushed too far, that does run the risk of turning evil ('Whoever fights monsters...').

So yeah, I can see where they are coming from.

[ProfCrash]

The books are written in a very clean way that makes it easy to brush off a fair amount of what is happening. But when you actually list all of things that we are told it doesn't take much to realize that Hogwarts was never a safe or friendly place for Harry.

He told Dumbledore that he didn't want to return to the Dursley's but Dumbledore sends him back without asking why Harry doesn't want to return or investigating what might be happening afterward. Let's face it, keeping a kid in the cupboard, barely feeding him, and forcing him to do all the work around the house is abuse. And that is what JKR showed us.

At Hogwarts, Dumbledore encourages Harry's exploring and "adventures". Hey, you nearly died chasing after a dangerous artifact that we knew Voldemort was after so we stored in a school with barriers that a bunch of 11 year olds could get through? Have a few hundred points and win the house cup. Ignore the fact that you killed a teacher, inadvertent and unintentional as it may have been, and return to a house where you don't want to go.

And it only gets worse. I have no problem seeing Dumbledore as a General moving his soldiers on the battlefield. Snape and Harry were two important pieces. I do have a problem with the fact that Dumbledore and McGonagall (sp) and Pomfrey pretty much ignored the clear signs of abuse in front of them.

And we know from the last book that Dumbledore was in cahoots with Grindewald for a bit there but caught himself before falling too far into the dark side. While we were presented with what was a biased view point, Skeeter's book, the fact that we are introduced to Aberforth, who clearly does not have a ton of love for his brother, seems to point to the truth of that matter.

A part of me wishes that JKR would rewrite the series with adults in mind and actually develop Dumbledore, Snape, Sirius, and other characters with the depth that was hidden because she was writing for kids. Her pronouncements bother folks, and I get that, but some of those writing are things that she did not feel belonged in a kids book. I suspect that Dumbledore would be less eye twinkles and more torn, grey leader then what we saw. Snape would be less git and more grey and concerned for Harry then we saw.

Obviously that will never happen but I really wish it could because I think there is a more powerful story to be told that would point even more to resilience, over coming hardship, perseverance and love then we saw.

The Draco Harry pairings bother me because there is nothing in the books to support them. The Harry and Snape pairings are disturbing because of the characters personalities and age difference and Snape's relationship with Lily. I mean, come on, Snape loved Lily and then has sex with Harry? Just ewwwww

[eschwartz]

Note: Less Wrong's Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality does an excellent job of developing the characters that JKR didn't.
It's pretty much a must-read for anyone who cares to read Harry Potter fanfiction in the first place.


Possibly the best Dumbledore I have ever seen written.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

The books are written in a very clean way that makes it easy to brush off a fair amount of what is happening. But when you actually list all of things that we are told it doesn't take much to realize that Hogwarts was never a safe or friendly place for Harry.

He told Dumbledore that he didn't want to return to the Dursley's but Dumbledore sends him back without asking why Harry doesn't want to return or investigating what might be happening afterward. Let's face it, keeping a kid in the cupboard, barely feeding him, and forcing him to do all the work around the house is abuse. And that is what JKR showed us.

At Hogwarts, Dumbledore encourages Harry's exploring and "adventures". Hey, you nearly died chasing after a dangerous artifact that we knew Voldemort was after so we stored in a school with barriers that a bunch of 11 year olds could get through? Have a few hundred points and win the house cup. Ignore the fact that you killed a teacher, inadvertent and unintentional as it may have been, and return to a house where you don't want to go.

And it only gets worse. I have no problem seeing Dumbledore as a General moving his soldiers on the battlefield. Snape and Harry were two important pieces. I do have a problem with the fact that Dumbledore and McGonagall (sp) and Pomfrey pretty much ignored the clear signs of abuse in front of them.

And we know from the last book that Dumbledore was in cahoots with Grindewald for a bit there but caught himself before falling too far into the dark side. While we were presented with what was a biased view point, Skeeter's book, the fact that we are introduced to Aberforth, who clearly does not have a ton of love for his brother, seems to point to the truth of that matter.

A part of me wishes that JKR would rewrite the series with adults in mind and actually develop Dumbledore, Snape, Sirius, and other characters with the depth that was hidden because she was writing for kids. Her pronouncements bother folks, and I get that, but some of those writing are things that she did not feel belonged in a kids book. I suspect that Dumbledore would be less eye twinkles and more torn, grey leader then what we saw. Snape would be less git and more grey and concerned for Harry then we saw.

Obviously that will never happen but I really wish it could because I think there is a more powerful story to be told that would point even more to resilience, over coming hardship, perseverance and love then we saw.

The Draco Harry pairings bother me because there is nothing in the books to support them. The Harry and Snape pairings are disturbing because of the characters personalities and age difference and Snape's relationship with Lily. I mean, come on, Snape loved Lily and then has sex with Harry? Just ewwwww

What I would like to see is the whole series from Snape's POV, rather than Harry's. The little bits of Snape that we see in the Pensieve make me want to know more about him.

Shari

[eschwartz]

Problem is, I am not sure JKR actually knows how to really write an "evil" character we can sympathize with.

She does all right with black-and-white characters, but Snape is a messed-up character with a lot of gray. HPMOR again did an excellent job writing a mostly-canon Snape who you can actually like as a character. Which is something JKR couldn't manage.
Heck, HPMOR has a Voldemort you can sympathize with!

Is there anyone in canon who you can disapprove of them and their actions, yet feel for them? No, they are all revolting people.

...

And yet, with that portrayal, we are supposed to believe he named his son after Snape????????

[shalym]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Note: Less Wrong's Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality does an excellent job of developing the characters that JKR didn't.
It's pretty much a must-read for anyone who cares to read Harry Potter fanfiction in the first place.


Possibly the best Dumbledore I have ever seen written.

Thank you! Downloaded and started!

Shari