Le Guin at National Book Awards

[BearMountainBooks]

I thought the larger sized paperbacks were also destroyed by ripping the covers off. I am not certain about hardbacks--they may in fact be remaindered or get special consideration.

It's also been a long while since I researched that. For an indie to sell in a bookstore or at a signing, said indie is usually selling on consignment (essentially, I bring the books, the bookstore buys them from me at a given price. I then sell whatever and the bookstore keeps the difference. At the end of the signing, I buy back any that did not sell, perhaps leaving two or three that the bookstore agrees to shelf in hopes of selling).

Not all stores are set up to do this (or willing to do it). Most booksellers prefer that more that one author do a signing at the same time. There's better traffic for everyone and less dead time. It also tends to sell more books unless the author is a large enough name.

The library used to do signings. They would order a large amount of books for the signings, but had to have agreements in place to ship back or destroy any that did not get sold. It was a huge expense and usually a waste of materials because for every signing I saw, we had at least one box leftover (25 to 50 books). And because the library (like a bookstore) is not going to be out any money if they don't sell, always over ordered.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Geirge R. R. Martin might have something to say about that.
Neil Gaiman and Stephen King among others, too.

On the fantasy side alone there is also a lady named Rowling.
I doubt LeGuin cracks the top ten these days.

"author that also writes sf and fantasy" kind of indicated that she is considerered an literary author sometimes. The authors you mentions mostly or only write in genre and is not mentioned as candidates for Nobel price. She wins prices and are well known outside of genre.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by tompe

"author that also writes sf and fantasy" kind of indicated that she is considerered an literary author sometimes. The authors you mentions mostly or only write in genre and is not mentioned as candidates for Nobel price. She wins prices and are well known outside of genre.

Let her have her Nobel Prize. Meanwhile, take it from one of the new generation of readers -- Gaiman, King, Pratchett, Rowling, Martin, Sanderson, etc. actually get read. I wonder which one authors prefer?

I actually have heard of Le Guin, and her books do not appeal to me. I've rarely heard mention of her, in fact, compared to the above authors.

There are actually well-read contemporary members of the reading public who have never heard of her at all -- I daresay that is the epitome of "not a loss".


Also you appear to be racist against mere "genre authors", so I am going to stop listening to you now.

[eschwartz]

Oh, and I don't really respect the Nobel Prize all that much these days, so good luck Le Guin in making me care about your books just because you have an in with the cultural elitists.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Let her have her Nobel Prize. Meanwhile, take it from one of the new generation of readers -- Gaiman, King, Pratchett, Rowling, Martin, Sanderson, etc. actually get read. I wonder which one authors prefer?

Of course they have all read LeGuin and been influenced by her.

For example:

“I learned from her the difference between Elfland and Poughkeepsie," Gaiman continued, “and I learned when to use the language of one, and when to use the language of another.” He learned about the usage of language, and its intersection with issues of social justice and feminism. Starting out on Sandman, Gaiman began to ask himself, whenever a new character appeared: “Is there any reason why this character couldn’t be a woman? And if there was no reason, then they were. Life got easy.” Le Guin, Gaiman went on, “made me a better writer, and I think much more importantly, she made me a much better person who wrote.”

Le Guin is a writer who transcends genre, writing science fiction, fantasy, and mainstream fiction; writing for children, adults, and all those in between; dealing deftly with both huge, cosmic ideas and everyday issues on a human scale. She is “a giant of literature, who is finally getting recognized,” Gaiman concluded, “and I take enormous pleasure in awarding the 2014 Medal for Distinguished Contribution for American Letters to Ursula K. Le Guin.”

[khalleron]

'The Left Hand of Darkness' woke up this Southern-Baptist-raised kid to LGBT issues. She's been one of the most influential authors on the modern crop which some of you are disdaining because she's not of your generation.

If you're dismissive of her just because you never read her, then that's YOUR loss.

I don't agree with her on this speech, but that doesn't mean her work isn't or hasn't been important.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by tompe

Of course they have all read LeGuin and been influenced by her.

For example:

Sigh, it truly is sad when people get so fixated on their side winning that they say absurd things like that. Le Guin is one of the giants of SF&F and was one of those who got SF&F legitimized as something more than simple pulp. She's up there with people like Ray Bradbury, Arthur C Clarke and Asimov. She's won many, many of the top awards, even back in the day when those awards meant something. You may disagree with what she says, or view her as a cranky old woman now, but if you don't acknowledge her as one of the big names in SF&F, then you are either displaying your dogma or your ignorance.

[eschwartz]

I have not said she is a meaningless writer, that her books are intrinsically bad.

Merely that it is disingenuous to say she is the most famousest writer ever. This is completely separate from the fact that her political and moral opinions are in fact meaningless to me -- she just writes good stories... that are not really so popular now, so it is no huge loss for people to boycott her, however silly it may be.
And she certainly isn't indispensable.

As far as I am concerned, she is a good writer whose books happen to not match my tastes, and who on a completely unrelated note happens to have stuck her nose in where it doesn't belong, speaking about that which she knows not, due to her blinding social elitism.

And tastes change and evolve; it is beautiful that she gets a lot of awards both deserved and not, and also completely irrelevant to expanding her readership and thus fulfilling the purpose of writing the books in the first place.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

How much of this discussion is about what she said and how much is about personal dislike/like of her public persona and how much is about personal dislike/like of her fiction? I'm getting confused by the intemperate mingling of these disparate lines of thought. Although, I do realize that this is the normal trajectory for many threads on this forum.

One of the reasons that it's hard to separate Le Guin's politics from her writing is that she doesn't really want to. She's always felt that (her) writing should have a message and make the world a better place. That's nothing new.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

You've been doing that for years. Pre-emptive strike?

“Sometimes the crime follows the punishment, which only serves to prove the foresight of the Great God."

(Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)

[khalleron]

Non-familiarity breeds contempt?

Why the disdain from people who never read her or have any idea of her influence and legacy?

The more you talk about stuff you don't know, the more foolish you appear. Time to get off that merry-go-round and go read a book.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tompe

Really, I thought she is maybe the most famous author that also write fantasy and sf.

Here:

http://www.mania.com/top-15-greatest...le_112611.html

I think they were generous ranking her at 12 but even there it is clear she is hardly the most famous SF writer. Not even terribly important in the larger context of the history of the genre. Well behind Asimov, Heinlein, and Clarke. And Doc Smith, Fritz Leiber, Ray Bradbury, Catherine Moore, Leigh Brackett, Andre Norton, Octavia Butler, and other pioneers.

Here:
http://www.mania.com/top-20-greatest...le_114266.html

The fantasy list speaks for itself.

I am very much aware that many litfic aficionados consider LeGuin one of their own rather than an SF or Fantasy writer.

Given recent developments I'd let them have her.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by khalleron

Non-familiarity breeds contempt?

Why the disdain from people who never read her or have any idea of her influence and legacy?

The more you talk about stuff you don't know, the more foolish you appear. Time to get off that merry-go-round and go read a book.

Uh, I've read her.
The Earthsea trilogy was readable and fun. (The rest of the series... Nope. It's best to treat it as a trilogy. Just as DUNE is best treated as a solo novel. )
I enjoyed Katherine Kurtz, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Brian Daley, and Robert Don Hughes more but she is a serviceable modern fantasy writer. Not a top 20 but okay.

Her SF I found turgid and didactic, frankly. A bit pretentious and full of itself.
(Oddly enough, I found the last two traits in OrsonScott Card books, too. Makes the books read more like manifestos than entertainment.)

She gets a lot of credit as an early practitioner of "soft SF" but I generally found Chad Oliver and Octavia Butler better at it.

So in my case at least it's not lack of familiarity.
I just don't think she has enough standing to get away with that load of bulloney she is trying to sell.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by taustin

One of the reasons that it's hard to separate Le Guin's politics from her writing is that she doesn't really want to. She's always felt that (her) writing should have a message and make the world a better place. That's nothing new.

I know. I'm dreading the moment when someone calls her a "special snowflake." It can't be long now.-)

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Here:

http://www.mania.com/top-15-greatest...le_112611.html

I think they were generous ranking her at 12 but even there it is clear she is hardly the most famous SF writer. Not even terribly important in the larger context of the history of the genre. Well behind Asimov, Heinlein, and Clarke. And Doc Smith, Fritz Leiber, Ray Bradbury, Catherine Moore, Leigh Brackett, Andre Norton, Octavia Butler, and other pioneers.

Here:
http://www.mania.com/top-20-greatest...le_114266.html

The fantasy list speaks for itself.

I am very much aware that many litfic aficionados consider LeGuin one of their own rather than an SF or Fantasy writer.

Given recent developments I'd let them have her.

I am really disappointed in that list and the "almost" lists. There are at least two or three other female writers that should have made some of those lists. Perhaps the person making the list just hadn't read enough female writers.