Let's reinvent the bookstore...

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Walmart, Costco and Amazon are not inherently evil by any stretch. They are just companies doing business like any other. The issue comes when they are the only game in town.

But whose fault is it if they are (occasionally) the only game in town?
Theirs?
Or maybe competitors who don't know or (more often) don't want to compete for consumer attention? Suppliers who offload core competencies like distribution and marketing to the distributors? Consumers, for choosing a reliable efficient retailer?

We all want a diversity of choices but what if one choice is simply better fir most people?

The whole tone of the original article is that times and the business environment have changed and that if B&M retailing is to survive as a viable business the bookstores need a clean sheet look at what consumers need and what they want and they need to focus less on what publishers want. The last part is hard because they are so dependent on the front table payola and on returns that most of them have limited leverage come negotiation time. If they have any at all. Most independent bookstores are pretty much limited to whatever their distributor charges so reworking the store and its practices may be the only areas they can control.

Which is why looking at things like loyalty programs, in-store kiosks, smart walls, walk-by sales, and POD is important. Any one of them might possibly make the difference between still being around in ten years or being a vaguely remembered ghost.

[jersysman]

Originally Posted by shalym

Hmmm...so you're saying that one of the online bookstores should buy luzme.com. I agree...I would love to see that!

Shari

Or FictFact.com. I get an email from them when an author I am following releases a new book in series that I am following.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by jersysman

Or FictFact.com. I get an email from them when an author I am following releases a new book in series that I am following.

Either one. To tell you the truth, I'm really really surprised that one of the e-book stores hasn't already tried to buy either one of these services, or at least partner with them.

Shari

[fjtorres]

Here is an interesting quote:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101751240

At the end of the day, transparency and margin compression will win. Consumers will win. RadioShack and, to a lesser extent, Best Buy will be casualties in the continuing emergence of efficient delivery of retail goods to consumers. The new economy is well underway.

The discussion at the source is about Radio Shack and Best Buy but if you substitute B&N or "bookstores" it is still valid.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

But whose fault is it if they are (occasionally) the only game in town?
Theirs?
Or maybe competitors who don't know or (more often) don't want to compete for consumer attention? Suppliers who offload core competencies like distribution and marketing to the distributors? Consumers, for choosing a reliable efficient retailer?

We all want a diversity of choices but what if one choice is simply better fir most people?

The whole tone of the original article is that times and the business environment have changed and that if B&M retailing is to survive as a viable business the bookstores need a clean sheet look at what consumers need and what they want and they need to focus less on what publishers want. The last part is hard because they are so dependent on the front table payola and on returns that most of them have limited leverage come negotiation time. If they have any at all. Most independent bookstores are pretty much limited to whatever their distributor charges so reworking the store and its practices may be the only areas they can control.

Which is why looking at things like loyalty programs, in-store kiosks, smart walls, walk-by sales, and POD is important. Any one of them might possibly make the difference between still being around in ten years or being a vaguely remembered ghost.

I didn't say it was anyone's fault, just that it is an issue when they are the only game in town. I don't know what happens if one choice is simply a better fit for most people. I guess we will find out if that ever happens, however unlikely it is.

Hum, my experience with B&N, back when they were the 600 lb gorilla in the book industry, seems to be a whole lot different that your claims of their business model. B&N had a very strong loyalty program. I had a B&N discount card for a number of years that paid for itself time and time again. They were very good about ordering books, heck I could even call in to see if they had a book, and if they didn't, they would order it, then call me when it got in. B&N was all about customer experience. B&N's problem was the same as any brick and mortar store, i.e. they had a limited number of customers within easy driving range and over time, more and more of those customers got in the habit of ordering on line. Most stores live on a razor thin profit margin and any disruption in the number of customers is going to give them problems. Because of that, the vast majority of _all_ stores aren't going to still be around in ten years. That's just the nature of the beast.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by shalym

Either one. To tell you the truth, I'm really really surprised that one of the e-book stores hasn't already tried to buy either one of these services, or at least partner with them.

Shari

hum, luzme.com seems to be having some system problems. I'm not sure that either does what I'm talking about.

[fjtorres]

I wasn't singling B&N out (in that particular post) but let's look at your experience then (90's?) and factor in today's environment. B&N still has a loyalty program but what I hear is it doesn't apply to Nook books. They send out emails for free ebooks that require travelling to the store to redeem in a complicated process.
They will still "special order" books...from the store...and it apparently still takes the same multiple weeks wait as in the old days, which means they keep their online pbook stash separate from the B&M stores and instead "special order" them from the publisher.

Essentially, B&N treats online and ebooks as separate businesses rather than part of a unified bookselling operation. It's not unlike the way Borders first outsourced online pbook sales and then simply fronted for Kobo for ebooks. Keeping them both at arm's length instead of embracing them is like hoping the move to online and digital is just a temporary fad and not a long term shift.

Indie booksellers, on the other hand, don't currently have much in the way of digital. Not with the walled gardens accounting for over 95% of digital. Back in the PDA era, Powells and other bookstores had a significant online and digital footprint that died because of lack of publisher support on pricing and availability. (And their fear of Microsoft.) After that, indies mostly (and not unreasonably) stayed away from ebooks until the 2010 explosion in adoption. And by then, thanks to the conspiracy, it was all a moot point.

Moving forward, unless the economics of pbooks change drastically, indie bookstores are simply going to have to focus on local customers. (Some of them can actually buy books cheaper from Amazon than from their distributor so trying to sell online is futile unless that changes.)

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Definitely. But one can (and I do, quite often) order POD books from Amazon. The benefits of the physical bookshop when it comes to ordering things for later delivery are difficult to see.

Serious question. Are these POD books the same quality as printed books. Well bound with nice spines and covers? Do they hold up well to daily wear and tear? Chances are they are good quality as Amazon can afford the best equipment, but I would like your opinion.

Helen

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Serious question. Are these POD books the same quality as printed books. Well bound with nice spines and covers? Do they hold up well to daily wear and tear? Chances are they are good quality as Amazon can afford the best equipment, but I would like your opinion.

Helen

Yes. Those POD books come from normal presses, not an expresso machine.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Yes. Those POD books come from normal presses, not an expresso machine.

Interesting. I have assumed otherwise for some reason.

Helen

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Interesting. I have assumed otherwise for some reason.

Helen

Probably because a lot of the POD talk at reader sites is about Expresso, not CREATESPACE or LIGHTNING SOURCE.

For example, most everybody knows that Amazon owes a lot of the goodwill and clout with indie publishers to their friendly KDP and KDP Select terms and services. A bit less seem aware that Createspace is the third leg of Amazon indiepub services and that it allows indie publishers to expand into pbooks and indie store distribution. (Ingram's LIGHTNING SOURCE also.)

https://www.createspace.com/AboutUs.jsp

https://www1.lightningsource.com/default.aspx

A third "POD" approach more successful indie publishers and small presses have access to is dealing with the actual chinese presses for small batches of conventional books. Orders in the low 4 figures can be commissioned for about $5 or thereabouts. That is cheaper than the other two approaches but you then have to find a distributor to get the books on the catalogs and into the stores. Which is not impossible, just riskier.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Probably because a lot of the POD talk at reader sites is about Expresso, not CREATESPACE or LIGHTNING SOURCE.

For example, most everybody knows that Amazon owes a lot of the goodwill and clout with indie publishers to their friendly KDP and KDP Select terms and services. A bit less seem aware that Createspace is the third leg of Amazon indiepub services and that it allows indie publishers to expand into pbooks and indie store distribution. (Ingram's LIGHTNING SOURCE also.)

https://www.createspace.com/AboutUs.jsp

https://www1.lightningsource.com/default.aspx

A third "POD" approach more successful indie publishers and small presses have access to is dealing with the actual chinese presses for small batches of conventional books. Orders in the low 4 figures can be commissioned for about $5 or thereabouts. That is cheaper than the other two approaches but you then have to find a distributor to get the books on the catalogs and into the stores. Which is not impossible, just riskier.

The third approach sounds a bit expensive as well, taking into account that the stores as well as the authors want to make money and no guarantee the books will sell.

There are no bookstores where I live, they are not even sold in the small grocery store, so I can't go look for myself. (Only one small bookstore in the entire Yukon, AFAIK)

Helen

edit: I meant to ask is this third approach happening?

Helen

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

The third approach sounds a bit expensive as well, taking into account that the stores as well as the authors want to make money and no guarantee the books will sell.

There are no bookstores where I live, they are not even sold in the small grocery store, so I can't go look for myself. (Only one small bookstore in the entire Yukon, AFAIK)

Helen

edit: I meant to ask is this third approach happening?

Helen

Yes.
If I remember the articles at Dean Wesley Smith's site, WMD PUBLISHING, the publishing house he and KKR set up to publish their backlist and frontlist titles does it. (Others too.) They also do their own audio ebooks and foreign rights deals. As KKR says, "there's this thing called the internet..."
It helps that they are both publishing industry veterans who've done it all before but as the saying goes (more or less) "what one person has done another can aspire to".

Now that both Ingram and Baker&Taylor distribute indie books on similar terms as the big boys (enough margin baked into the list price and willingness to accept a small percentage of returns) they have comparable reach to the smaller traditional publishers. The last hurdle is independent bookstores and libraries being open to indie titles.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Now that both Ingram and Baker&Taylor distribute indie books on similar terms as the big boys (enough margin baked into the list price and willingness to accept a small percentage of returns) they have comparable reach to the smaller traditional publishers. The last hurdle is independent bookstores and libraries being open to indie titles.

Last year I ask my librarian to purchase a couple of indie books. I ran into more walls than Pac-Man. She originally said that all they need is an ISBN and be available from B&T. A week later she came to me and said B&T didn't have them. Thinking she wasn't being honest, I called B&T myself. That was an exercise in pulling teeth. B&T does NOT deal directly with the public and the service rep wouldn't provide any info on availability or pricing except to say they stock "99%" of currently published titles. She kept referring me to my library. However, in the end I don't know if the librarian saw they were indies and didn't want to purchase them or B&T really didn't stock them.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Last year I ask my librarian to purchase a couple of indie books. I ran into more walls than Pac-Man. She originally said that all they need is an ISBN and be available from B&T. A week later she came to me and said B&T didn't have them. Thinking she wasn't being honest, I called B&T myself. That was an exercise in pulling teeth. B&T does NOT deal directly with the public and the service rep wouldn't provide any info on availability or pricing except to say they stock "99%" of currently published titles. She kept referring me to my library. However, in the end I don't know if the librarian saw they were indies and didn't want to purchase them or B&T really didn't stock them.

I've seen anti-indie blog rants from librarians that make Shatzkin look like an indiepub mouthpiece. Lots of bile.

Edit: Which I just found out is going to gush once this makes the rounds:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...8m-titles-300m

Self-published books' share of the UK market grew by 79% in 2013, with 18m self-published books bought by UK readers last year, according to new statistics.

With print sales falling by 10% last year, and book purchasing as a whole down 4%, ebook sales continue to grow, according to Nielsen's comprehensive tracking of book purchases, up 20% in the UK in 2013, with 80m ebooks bought by UK consumers, to a value of £300m. But it is the DIY market which is showing the most eye-watering growth, up 79% to 18m self-published titles purchased, worth £59m, according to the statistics released on Friday.