Got it, hate it

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by DMSmillie

There's a subtle but significant difference, I'd suggest, between "make me like this" and "help me to love it" which is what they actually wrote. That aside, though, I think people could give new posters a bit more leeway than this guy got, and give them the benefit of the doubt until or unless they are so overtly rude and demanding that it's obviously not just poor choice of words or phrasing, and inexperience in posting to forums like these.

99.9% of new people coming in here are polite ask nicely and are treated well. then we get a few trolls that sets peoples dander up, and we have had more than a few "make me like it" demands. and I direct your attention *with tail wags* to my post here

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

*shrug* if it had not been for all the petulant other posts maybe I could have seen it that way.

I know when I am new to any forum I take lessons from the dogs at the puppy park; no matter how big you are or what your reputation is, be polite, wag your tail, lick freely, nod your head and offer to play nicely. snarl and snap and you'll get what you deserve

[DMSmillie]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

99.9% of new people coming in here are polite ask nicely and are treated well. then we get a few trolls that sets peoples dander up, and we have had more than a few "make me like it" demands.

Totally agree. However in most cases, the trolls and "demanders" are pretty obvious and easy to spot. In this case, I'd suggest the OP's words and phrasing were more ambiguous than directly insulting - it comes down to how people perceived them (including their other posts re the USB cable) - I saw them as someone who was floundering, feeling out of their depth, and looking for help, some read them as petulant demands. I'm just suggesting that when there's so little to judge on and it's possible to read more than one way, cutting new people a little slack wouldn't go amiss.

[leaston]

I used to work on an IT support helpdesk. Internal staff within the organisation would call with every problem you can imagine, some even IT related. As most of these people weren't IT oriented (mainly nurses with little or no IT training), they would call completely out of their depth, frustrated, intimidated and sometimes even scared - which could easily be translated at my end of the call as someone rude, angry, arrogant and demanding. This was usually far from the truth however. I learned very quickly NOT to take things like this at face value.

The point being, many of these calls taken purely at face value, would have been interpreted as the op's post was by a few people here - as a personal affront. I'd be willing to bet the op meant no offence, wasn't being rude on purpose and didn't expect anything other than help. If no allowance is made for the fact that we are all are different personalities, have different skills, communication methods, turns of phrase, experience etc. then we may as well make it forum policy to simply flame every noob who uses the wrong phrasing in their request for help.

I don't condone trolling or people being deliberately rude or arrogant. But, the wording of the op was ambiguous at best, which should have dictated a more lenient response rather than simple flames for perceived insults which probably weren't anything of the sort.

[unboggling]

Does anyone know if Amazon plans for Kindle to support ePub in future? After a month owning K3 and a week or 2 trying to educate myself here, it seems to noobie-me that all manufacturers of eBookDevices should support ePub. I understand about proprietary formats and trying to force buyers to one store-brand, but sheesh. It's ridiculous.

[DiapDealer]

Does anyone know if Amazon plans for Kindle to support ePub in future?

The answer is no...... no one knows.
But it's always a fun topic.

[unboggling]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The answer is no...... no one knows.
But it's always a fun topic.

Heh.

Hmmm. I'm probably going to buy another eBD that CAN handle ePub as well as selected other formats. From pov of simple user wanting to build personal eBook library for personal use, to get rid of all those pesky pBooks and bookcases, why go thru the hassle of conversion then cleaning up conversion problems if you don't have to?

[Redcard]

Originally Posted by unboggling

Does anyone know if Amazon plans for Kindle to support ePub in future? After a month owning K3 and a week or 2 trying to educate myself here, it seems to noobie-me that all manufacturers of eBookDevices should support ePub. I understand about proprietary formats and trying to force buyers to one store-brand, but sheesh. It's ridiculous.

I can understand Epub being good and all that , but just BEING epub doesn't mean you can use other companies products. It's still DRM'd individually, so simply having EPUB support is really, fundamentally, no different than having MOBI support or HTML or TXT.

I've heard a lot of arguments that all e-readers should support epub, and while I fundamentally agree, I don't think it would change anything realistically.

[unboggling]

Oh.
Well, thx for your responses, DD and Redcard.

[Redcard]

Originally Posted by unboggling

Oh.
Well, thx for your responses, DD and Redcard.

Ultimately, if you want to have all your books on one device, with all the stores available, your best bet is to strip the DRM and convert it. That may be illegal where you are at, and I am not encouraging anyone to do things that are illegal, but that's where we are at in this market.

It's why so long as the reader can read unDRM'd stuff, I'm not really concerned with what format it's in, and it comes down to hardware preference and power. For that, IMHO, Amazon wins.

EDIT: Or, option two, buy an ipad and get the apps. The newer ones coming out soon might be lighter than the current ones. I just had one, but sold it, as eink is light years easier to read for me.

[unboggling]

re DRM, it is illegal where I'm at and as far as I'm concerned it shouldn't be for personal use.

Regardless of the piracy issue, I think sales would increase if the manufacturers and eBook distributors all went to a common standard because users would have an easier time buying and reading what they want from multiple sources. In that case I'd buy *more* from Amazon, where I've spent close to $2000 in past few months, because I love Amazon's convenience to shop in one place. I'd venture to say that an eInk device that supported most of the current formats regardless of source would have tremendous sales.

[phil75070]

Originally Posted by unboggling

I'd venture to say that an eInk device that supported most of the current formats regardless of source would have tremendous sales.

In many cases, it isn't about the base product, it is about the consumables tied to it. Money is made on the sale of razor blades, not razors. Little if any profit is made on cell phones by the carriers. Their money is made on the monthly charges and other fees. With the Kindle, the real money (profit) is made on the books that are bought to be read on it.

I don't believe any of these eReaders, Sony, Nook, Kindle, etc., are really that profitable, falling more in the category of loss leaders. If that is truly the case, a device made by a 3rd party that has no ties to any revenue from consumables, the books, would have to be stand-alone profitable, perhaps making it uncompetitive in the marketplace.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by leaston

I used to work on an IT support helpdesk. Internal staff within the organisation would call with every problem you can imagine, some even IT related. As most of these people weren't IT oriented (mainly nurses with little or no IT training), they would call completely out of their depth, frustrated, intimidated and sometimes even scared - which could easily be translated at my end of the call as someone rude, angry, arrogant and demanding. This was usually far from the truth however. I learned very quickly NOT to take things like this at face value.

The point being, many of these calls taken purely at face value, would have been interpreted as the op's post was by a few people here - as a personal affront. I'd be willing to bet the op meant no offence, wasn't being rude on purpose and didn't expect anything other than help. If no allowance is made for the fact that we are all are different personalities, have different skills, communication methods, turns of phrase, experience etc. then we may as well make it forum policy to simply flame every noob who uses the wrong phrasing in their request for help.

I don't condone trolling or people being deliberately rude or arrogant. But, the wording of the op was ambiguous at best, which should have dictated a more lenient response rather than simple flames for perceived insults which probably weren't anything of the sort.

I've done customer support in telecommunications with users a lot, even users speaking numerous other languages. I've been screamed at and verbally abused on the phone so I know how it goes. and I *get* the whole; "this is the internet, facial expressions, body language, etc. etc. can't be read", but in a situation like this, when someone is new, and asking for help, I would think that quick passionate typing which DOES happen during online arguments is not taking place. that this would be a time when you are thinking about your dilemma and phrasing your language carefully. maybe the op wasn't cranky, maybe they do not understand on line etiquette. I don't know, I DO know however that I respond a LOT better to wiggly tails than an snarl

[yochillum]

Originally Posted by phil75070

In many cases, it isn't about the base product, it is about the consumables tied to it. Money is made on the sale of razor blades, not razors. Little if any profit is made on cell phones by the carriers. Their money is made on the monthly charges and other fees. With the Kindle, the real money (profit) is made on the books that are bought to be read on it.

I don't believe any of these eReaders, Sony, Nook, Kindle, etc., are really that profitable, falling more in the category of loss leaders. If that is truly the case, a device made by a 3rd party that has no ties to any revenue from consumables, the books, would have to be stand-alone profitable, perhaps making it uncompetitive in the marketplace.

Well said Phil!

[Pushka]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Exactly, and karma and kudos to you, Kindleworm, for speaking up. I have reported the rude posts in this thread, and I am ashamed of y'all. This is not how we want Mobile Read to be perceived.

Please dont be ashamed on my behalf.

In context, if this had been the first thread that this person had posted about the kindle then everyone would have gone out of their way to help them, as is usual round here! But it wasn't. So thankyou for (probably) reporting my posts! I thought kindleworm's first comments were pretty strong to be honest. But nothing in this thread was enough to report someone. If you understood the context.

And the words 'hate it' are always going to evoke a strong negative reaction in a kindle forum especially when they have only had a device for 24 hours, so maybe they got as much as they gave.

[OtterBooks]

In many cases, it isn't about the base product, it is about the consumables tied to it. Money is made on the sale of razor blades, not razors. Little if any profit is made on cell phones by the carriers. Their money is made on the monthly charges and other fees. With the Kindle, the real money (profit) is made on the books that are bought to be read on it.

You have good reason to suspect this (and I did as well), however in this case it is not so. The Kindle is not like a Playstation 3 (sold at 12% under cost) or other devices where revenue comes from content and licensing. The Kindle is sold at 48% profit, and Amazon makes practically nothing on ebooks. For a while Amazon was even taking a loss on ebooks, charging less than what they paid to the publisher, in order to keep prices from harming Kindle sales. Not sure if this has changed.

The playing field may change in the future and I'm sure Amazon has that in mind, but for now Kindle sales are about profit from Kindle sales (and stuff like the covers), and they are doing rather well. It's almost an odd thing to see these days, and I sorta find it refreshing. For some reason it makes the purchase feel better to me, ha. A good ol' fashioned product. Well kinda.

They have twice as many free books as non. Just about anything they can give away without taking a loss, they do. Offering content to support a physical product. It's crazy!