French culture minister: "Allowing publishers to fix prices is best"

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Xoanon

Depends who you ask. As a reader of popular fiction I have gotten the impression over the years that some people don't think the great unwashed masses should be allowed to read books.

The Great Un-Washed masses:
1) Can't read anything longer than a tweet (blame: No child left behind?)
2) Won't read because they have TV for their 'official' source of research (Seen on TV, so it is real.) and entertainment.
3) "Books are too heavy. Besides, I don't have a extra hand for a Book while holding a Coke and Fries".

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by avantman42

If someone does not want their book to be sold for less than what they want, they can sell it themselves via their own website. If they want to take advantage of another website's reach, why shouldn't the other website set the price?


I think fjtorres was confused that anyone would think differently.

The other website should be able to set the price, as long as the creator agrees to the new price. In this "case" both parties did not agree completely. Amazon still sold the books at the creators preferred price yes? What exactly is the problem here?

The idea of price fixing as a bad thing is absurd, all prices are fixed by someone.

[QuantumIguana]

I don't know that people have any less ability to read then they did in the past. There never was a time when every person was an avid reader. The trope about people signing an X because they didn't know how to sign their name had some reality behind it. It's just now that technology has allowed people to communicate with the rest of the world with only having minimal reading skills.

[ProfCrash]

Books were very expensive and it was rare for people to own books not so long ago. The printing press may have made it easier to publish books and more affordable to buy books but they were still expensive for the common person.

One of the nice things about e-books is that we have a real oppertunity to establish a system where books are not as expensive, easier to purchase, easier to store and hence more available to the entire population.

I am a capitalist who believes in safety nets. Let the market work with some level of regulation to protect people in places where it makes sense, like safety, health, and the like. If the people of France want to keep their small independent bookstores, they will choose to shop there for books no matter what the price. If the people of France choose to shop at places that are less expensive, than they have told the government what they want. Let the market work.

There are independent bookstores in the US. Heck, there are even some in major cities. I can think of a few in DC. They are there because they provide excellent service, great programs, and the people in the area can afford the slightly more expensive prices. The people in those communities have voted with their dollars. Borders is gone but some Independents survived. The system works.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by plib

No. Read the bit about "butt the hell out of retail pricing" again.

( Shrug)

I read it. The agency price model is entirely legal and widespread. Under agency pricing, the producer sets the "retail" price.

[stonetools]

There are independent bookstores in the US. Heck, there are even some in major cities. I can think of a few in DC. They are there because they provide excellent service, great programs, and the people in the area can afford the slightly more expensive prices. The people in those communities have voted with their dollars. Borders is gone but some Independents survived. The system works.

THere is really no doubt but that Amazon poses an even bigger threat to independents than the chain book stores ever did. The " showroom" effect is real . People browse the independent's bookshelves, accept the help and advice of their staff, then go home to buy from Amazon, even telling the book staff that they are going to do so.
Faced with that, its difficult to figure out how the independents can survive, and merely asserting blithely that "the system works" aint cutting it.
Frankly, I don't know how the independents can survive. Its a difficult problem and it can be argued that the online booksellers are unfairly benefitting from the efforts of independent book sellers to provide a great book browsing experience, therefore something should be done to tilt the playing field their way. What that something should be is the question.

[QuantumIguana]

I think people are a lot more likely to browse for books in a bookstore and then buy online if the bookstore in question is a big faceless big box store, and less so at an independent bookstore. Independent bookstores can be much more adaptable to the local market than the big box retailers.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

I think people are a lot more likely to browse for books in a bookstore and then buy online if the bookstore in question is a big faceless big box store, and less so at an independent bookstore. Independent bookstores can be much more adaptable to the local market than the big box retailers.

Agreed. Many of the Independent bookstores that have survived this long have strong local community support. The people who go there buy books from there. I am sure that there are some browsers but the local stores that are still around have plenty of folks who are buying from them.

I know I spent more money at Olssen's when it was around then I did at Borders or Barnes and Noble. Barnes and Noble is a huge warehouse and the people there rarely had a clue about books. If I went into browse, I had not problem buying from some place else. When I went to Olssen's, I would chat with the people working, get some good suggestions, and buy from them. I used to order from them as well. They had three stores, the one by me was not the original store and was in a business area so it did not last.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by stonetools

THere is really no doubt but that Amazon poses an even bigger threat to independents than the chain book stores ever did. The " showroom" effect is real . People browse the independent's bookshelves, accept the help and advice of their staff, then go home to buy from Amazon, even telling the book staff that they are going to do so.
Faced with that, its difficult to figure out how the independents can survive, and merely asserting blithely that "the system works" aint cutting it.
Frankly, I don't know how the independents can survive. Its a difficult problem and it can be argued that the online booksellers are unfairly benefitting from the efforts of independent book sellers to provide a great book browsing experience, therefore something should be done to tilt the playing field their way. What that something should be is the question.

The benefit online booksellers are receiving isn't particularly unfair, there's price comparison all over the place. I go to Best Buy and browse games and electronics, but then I go home and buy from Steam and Newegg respectively. Is that unfair to Bestbuy, or is that just how the market works in a world with online stores and easy price comparison?

If independent bookstores aren't providing the public with a shopping experience they care about, and aren't offering prices that they want, then what is their benefit? There's no inherent good served by independent bookstores if they're not providing people with a service they want at a price they want to pay. What you describe as a problem is just changing markets due to changing tech; it's a story as old as the Industrial Revolution.

Maybe introducing bizarre and self-serving distortions into the market shouldn't be the go to answer every time the future crushes a particular business model. If we're going to do that, maybe we should prop up mom and pop video rental stores too now that internet video has ruined that. Or how about video arcades now that game consoles have crushed that?

[stonetools]

If independent bookstores aren't providing the public with a shopping experience they care about, and aren't offering prices that they want, then what is their benefit? There's no inherent good served by independent bookstores if they're not providing people with a service they want at a price they want to pay. What you describe as a problem is just changing markets due to changing tech; it's a story as old as the Industrial Revolution.

But the " showroom effect"shows that they are providing book buyers with an attractive shopping experience. Its just that Amazon is appropriating the benefits of it. Here is a deeper analysis, along with a suggestion for a better model:

Why can't independent bookstores partner with Amazon to, essentially, serve as showrooms in exchange for a cut of the profits?

This would let Amazon keep enjoying the benefits it reaps from the existence of physical bookstores, but it would also protect that advantage for the long term — because the stores wouldn't be driven out of business. Indies, on the other hand, should welcome such a proposal, on the right terms, as a sound evolution of their business model and because increasing the number of readers increases demand for the product they, too, sell.

What exactly do independent bookstores offer Amazon? First and foremost, they help create demand, through both intelligent handselling (finding the right individual book for the right individual customer) and well-curated displays that draw customers in and stimulate their appetites. While Slate's Farhad Majoo dismisses bookstore clerks "a dubious recommendations engine," most customers still prefer a human with some expertise — whether it's a friend, a book reviewer, or a local shop clerk — saying, "Buy this, not that," to algorithmic recommendations and even online reviews, often the subject of controversy. Researchers have shown that online reviewers exaggerate and that later reviewers are often just reacting to early reviewers — not to the product itself. That's why aggregations ("three-and-a-half stars") are so often not helpful. And as for the algorithm, a recent visit to my Amazon.com homepage revealed more than 50 different products to buy, but only one was something I actually wanted.

LINK

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

As, for example, car manufacturers do.

"The latest Stephen King novel, available at all authorized dealers. Financing available."


Sorry, couldn't resist....
It's actually a viable option but the humor potential is immense.
(It even allows for dealer incentives, inventory financing assistance, rebates, under-the-table-kickbacks...)

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Unpopular from a consumer point of view, but he's actually right. Without a fixed price, competition will decrease. History shows us that.

Well, yes and no. The number of retail outlets will probably decrease. That doesn't mean that "competition" has decreased, since these retail outlets were not allowed to compete on price. I don't think that 30 bookstores in a city, all of which are required to charge the exact same price for a book (while being able to compete on service), means more competition than 5 bookstores in a city, all of which compete fiercely on price and service.

[QuantumIguana]

ARE people really using independent bookstores as showrooms for Amazon? Barnes and Noble, sure. I'd have to see some evidence that this is going on to any significant extent at independent bookstores.

If Barnes and Noble goes under, it will take pressure off the independent bookstores. As paper books take up a smaller share of the market, independent bookstores will be better positioned to meet that market share than big box stores.

I buy my science fiction books at Uncle Hugo, a science fiction bookstore in Minneapolis. A friend of mine went in there lookiing for a book. He didn't know the author, and didn't know the title. He only had a vague description of the book. The staff had the book in his hand in about one minute.

[stonetools]

Bookstore owners everywhere have a lurking suspicion: that the customers who type into their smartphones while browsing in the store, and then leave, are planning to buy the books online later — probably at a steep discount from the bookstores’ archrival, Amazon.com.


Hiroko Masuike for The New York TimesNow a survey has confirmed that the practice, known among booksellers as showrooming, is not a figment of their imaginations. According to the survey, conducted in October by the Codex Group, a book market research and consulting company, 24 percent of people who said they had bought books from an online retailer in the last month also said they had seen the book in a brick-and-mortar bookstore first.

Thirty-nine percent of people who bought books from Amazon in the same period said they had looked at the book in a bookstore before buying it from Amazon, the survey said.

As frustrated bookstore owners see it, the practice allows customers to take advantage of the stores’ careful selection of books, staff recommendations and warm atmosphere — all while spending their money elsewhere.

LINK

Yep, the showroom effect really does exist-and it affects independents.NB. Check the comments if you have any doubt.

[QuantumIguana]

From the link:

Valerie Koehler, the owner of Blue Willow Bookshop in Houston, said she had occasionally spotted customers who appeared to be typing titles into their phones instead of buying the books.

But she also suspects that the small size of her store helps her in this regard, because it has an intimacy that discourages offenders, she said.

“There’s really not much anonymity here,” Ms. Koehler said. “I think most people are coming in because they want to get something here.”

People may be going into a bookstore to examine the books before buying from Amazon, but as the article suggests, it may be more likely to happen at a big box store than at an independent bookstore. Independent bookstores are in a better position to meet the demands for paper books in a market where paper books are a smaller portion of the market.