The eBook Reader: Time for New Large Kindles

[Steve H]

Originally Posted by John F

Are there sales figures, or was this a Bezos comment saying it didn't sell?

Looking at the number of reviews(US), there are more for the DX than the Voyage, Oasis, and Oasis 2, which makes me think that it sold more than the others?

Totally agree ...over 5000 reviews ....I paid 399.99 plus an extra 59.99 for 3g for one about 9 years ago. At least once a year for the last four years I have emailed Jeff Bezos ccing the Kindle Team requesting a larger device with some features such as font control, font imports, storage, etc. No way the Kindle Team and executives are not aware of large e-reader interest...they actually sell competitor's models.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by John F

Are there sales figures, or was this a Bezos comment saying it didn't sell?

Looking at the number of reviews(US), there are more for the DX than the Voyage, Oasis, and Oasis 2, which makes me think that it sold more than the others?

They discontinued the model. Somehow, I don't think Amazon would have done that if sales of the DX met their expectations.

Checked the reviews:

• Paperwhite 3: 46,665
• Paperwhite 4: 4,232
• Voyage: 13,852
• Oasis: 4,482
• Oasis 2: 4,856
• DX: 5,386

Yes, the Oasis models have fewer reviews but I expect it's got high enough markup to make up for the lack of volume.

How much is the market willing to pay for a large Kindle and is that market huge enough? When the DX was first released, there was no iPad yet and people were expecting the rumored Apple tablet to launch at ~$1,000. Fast forward to now and you can get brand new iPads for $330 (and even frequently on sale for $250). At anything >$300, a large Kindle would be competing with iPads, Chromebooks and laptops when it comes to mass market.

[ElspethB]

Originally Posted by John F

Looking at the number of reviews(US), there are more for the DX than the Voyage, Oasis, and Oasis 2, which makes me think that it sold more than the others?

On Amazon U.S. I'm seeing 5,386 reviews for the DX versus 13,852 for the Voyage. The Oasis 2 has only been out for a bit for less than a year and half but has nearly as many reviews (4,856) as the DX, which was released almost 10 years ago.

Probably a better comparison would be between the DX and the Kindle Keyboard which came out a year after the DX and has over 43,000 reviews.

[John F]

Oops, sorry about the wrong number for the Voyage reviews.

[Steve H]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

They discontinued the model. Somehow, I don't think Amazon would have done that if sales of the DX met their expectations.

Checked the reviews:

• Paperwhite 3: 46,665
• Paperwhite 4: 4,232
• Voyage: 13,852
• Oasis: 4,482
• Oasis 2: 4,856
• DX: 5,386

Yes, the Oasis models have fewer reviews but I expect it's got high enough markup to make up for the lack of volume.

How much is the market willing to pay for a large Kindle and is that market huge enough? When the DX was first released, there was no iPad yet and people were expecting the rumored Apple tablet to launch at ~$1,000. Fast forward to now and you can get brand new iPads for $330 (and even frequently on sale for $250). At anything >$300, a large Kindle would be competing with iPads, Chromebooks and laptops when it comes to mass market.

Let's look at this from another, unsaid perspective..those reviews are U.S. only. Do we expect that Kobo actually sold more Aura Ones in Canada (with a little over a tenth of the U.S. population) and the U.S. actually outsold the Oasis in Canada and U.S.
I doubt it.
Was the Aura One profitable...almost surely. Was it good for Kobo...almost definitely.
Amazon's buying power makes it easy to make profit.
Lastly the people that purchase ultra premium readers probably buy more content...Amazon's professed goal.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Given the price of the Oasis, (which I have and love) if Amazon does make another large screen reader, it would need to be front-lit, which would make it crazy expensive, making it another niche item like the DX was.

Why do you say that? The Kobo Forma with an 8" screen can be had for $280. Not as large as the DX, but larger than current Kindles.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by Steve H

Let's look at this from another, unsaid perspective..those reviews are U.S. only. Do we expect that Kobo actually sold more Aura Ones in Canada (with a little over a tenth of the U.S. population) and the U.S. actually outsold the Oasis in Canada and U.S.
I doubt it.
Was the Aura One profitable...almost surely. Was it good for Kobo...almost definitely.
Amazon's buying power makes it easy to make profit.
Lastly the people that purchase ultra premium readers probably buy more content...Amazon's professed goal.

Ah, if we're just talking about 8" class, I expect that'll happen whenever Amazon releases its next Oasis.

What I don't see happening is a much larger, extra premium e-reader tier that costs $400+ (which is probably the minimum they'd charge for a 10" class e-reader).

Amazon knows its market better than we do. If they figure a large e-reader is a more profitable use of their R&D funds, then that's what we'll see.

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

What I don't see happening is a much larger, extra premium e-reader tier that costs $400+ (which is probably the minimum they'd charge for a 10" class e-reader). Amazon knows its market better than we do. If they figure a large e-reader is a more profitable use of their R&D funds, then that's what we'll see.

Exactly. I feel they've ceded this space to the leading tablet makes (Apple, Samsung, etc). There's a niche market (certain kinds of engineering design, academics, etc.) for these fancy, 10-inch PDF and e-ink type devices like Onyx makes, but I'll bet Amazon doesn't want to play in that market because it's niche. I don't expect they're going to ship anything in the 10+" size specialty reading devices again.

I think what we might realistically hope for is an improved, possibly larger iteration of the Oasis. Hopefully something 8", for my taste.

[John F]

For the UK, I'm seeing 5,386 Kindle DX reviews and 3,433 Voyage reviews, 1064 for the oasis 2, and 697 for the Oasis 1.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by John F

For the UK, I'm seeing 5,386 Kindle DX reviews and 3,433 Voyage reviews, 1064 for the oasis 2, and 697 for the Oasis 1.

As the number of DX reviews is the exact same figure on Amazon US, I'd hazard a guess that's the combined total (perhaps prior to a change in Amazon's software).

Do note that the tech landscape was different back when the DX was first released. There wasn't really any competition to speak of from tablets. Also, if sales for the Oasis 2 are already slow and subscriptions services and book purchases don't make up for that slack, that gives Amazon even *less* incentive to release an even bigger reader.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by issybird

Well, the DX was huge and weighed over a pound. The Kobo Forma, just as one example, weighs less than half that. I can one-hand my Aura One but no way I'd have been able to one-hand that baby! As for me personally, I think a roughly 8" screen is just about the sweet spot.

I think the weight of the DX was because that was the state of the technology in those days. My first Kindle, the Kindle 3, was also a lot heavier than my current Paperwhite.

Barry

[Steve H]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Ah, if we're just talking about 8" class, I expect that'll happen whenever Amazon releases its next Oasis.

What I don't see happening is a much larger, extra premium e-reader tier that costs $400+ (which is probably the minimum they'd charge for a 10" class e-reader).

Amazon knows its market better than we do. If they figure a large e-reader is a more profitable use of their R&D funds, then that's what we'll see.

Actually I agree that odds favor an 8" device....for cost/benefit ratio, skus sold reasons. Unless they can make e-textbooks more attractive with note taking capability you are probably right.
As a previous owner of a Kindle DX 9.7" device I would buy a 8",9" or 10" Oasis quality device on day one.

[helen19770707]

Wow! I think a 8" one would be perfect. That would be portable and convenient to read books. Also want something new for the appearance.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by barryem

I think the weight of the DX was because that was the state of the technology in those days. My first Kindle, the Kindle 3, was also a lot heavier than my current Paperwhite.

Barry

Well, sure, but at over a pound it was less appealing as a reading device. My point is that the DX was large and heavy and Amazon's experiences with it may not be entirely relevant in regard to a somewhat smaller (but still larger than 7") and much lighter device.

[blue_skies]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The only two people I know who purchased larger format eInk ereaders have continued to use a smaller device for most of their ereading. Such things as portability and front lights make them more usable as day to day ereaders compared to their Onyx Boox Note and Remarkable devices. Though both are happy with their larger device for the purposes they were purchased for, the number of people willing to spend the money to own both sizes of ereader is not going to a very large number (IMNSHO).

My experience has been the opposite. I bought a Boyue Likebook Mimas eReader 10.3" note-taking device last month, and my six inch eReaders have been turned off and left in a drawer since them. I love the amount of text displayed on the 10.3" screen, and have no interest in reading on a 6" screen (or smaller) any longer.

I suppose the difference between your friends and me is that the Likebook Mimas has a frontlight. (And also that I don't care about portability.)

Originally Posted by tdonline

I love my Kindle Paperwhite. I would love it more if it had an 8 inch screen. Come on Amazon, my eyes aren't getting any younger.

Same here. I would think that is true for a significant percentage of their Kindle customers, and continues to grow over time as Kindle users age.

Originally Posted by maximus83

This! Yes! Geez, if I had essentially a Kobo Forma (7.8" screen, super lightweight, soft grippy material, and natural lighting options) with access to the Amazon store, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Still crossing my fingers Amazon will crank out something like this. They have, after all, had some time to review the Forma and other e-ink Android devices that are coming out in competition to the Oasis. It seems like that approximately 8" screen size is a sweet spot.

I think an 8" screen would be perfect for a lot of people! I stumbled across a comparison video of the Oasis and the Paperwhite, and the Oasis screen looked so nice. They need to add the warm lighting and release it in 8 inch size, but without the weird shape... just page turn buttons on each side. That would make me trade-in my old Kindle Keyboard. (Also, my Likebook Mimas has an SDcard slot, speakers and USB C which makes it charge very fast... so any of those features and/or note-taking abilities would be nice. And while I'm dreaming... might as well make it color too.)

Originally Posted by Steve H

Amazon's buying power makes it easy to make profit.
Lastly the people that purchase ultra premium readers probably buy more content...Amazon's professed goal.

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that it wouldn't be profitable. So much of development cost for their competitors is in soft-ware development, and Amazon already has that pretty well worked out. (When I tried 2 Paperwhites that I had to return due to uneven lighting, the only firmware annoyance was the font sizes going from small to huge, and having to use Font Ramp.)

With the volume Amazon would have, I'm not worried about profitability of an 8 inch Kindle. I think they just got lazy because most US consumers don't know about other eReader options, so they just buy whatever Kindles are available.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Why do you say that? The Kobo Forma with an 8" screen can be had for $280. Not as large as the DX, but larger than current Kindles.

I would expect a similar price range for an 8" Kindle, and I think it would sell well and be profitable for Amazon. They just need to include features that people have been waiting for to upgrade, like warm-lighting. (And make sure it's comfortable to hold in both hands for the majority of people, like the Voyage or Paperwhite. I've read a lot of complaints about the Oasis in that regard, and I know it would bother me too.)